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| Finish over ink art http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46085 |
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| Author: | hanstrocity [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Finish over ink art |
Hello my friends, I have a box near completion, and a bit of knot shadow has magically appeared on the soundboard as I have sanded it down. I don't really want to re-top the box, so I was considering other ways to conceal the knot shadow (i.e. stain, paint, sunburst, etc.) In thinking through the choices, I realized that I have a dear friend who is an award winning pen and ink artist and I am considering giving him the finish sanded box to have his way with the top. However, I have no idea how to finish over ink art without potentially damaging or destroying the artwork. Google searches have not been particularly fruitful (i.e. "sharpie art" over the top of finish is not exactly what I am looking for). Do any of you have experience with such madness? Please advise. Thank you my friends, Hans |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Nothing weird about ink art, painting, wood burning etc. on a guitar or other wood instruments -- here's one I know was finished with Tru-oil http://www.acousticguitarconstructionfo ... f=24&t=543 |
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| Author: | hanstrocity [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Thank you for that link sir. I appreciate the lead very much. I have attempted to contact Mr. Bagwill via email for some further council on the matter. As a matter of forum reader interest, I thought that some of you might also be interested in a tip I received elsewhere. There is an instrument named a hardanger fiddle, which traditionally is decorated with pen and ink art they call "rosing". Very interesting stuff. I have contacted several builders of these instruments for further research into the matter. Any additional guidance you forum members may have is, as always, greatly appreciated. Hans |
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| Author: | Ben-Had [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Here's one my brother-in-law (artist) and I (builder) did. Pen and ink. Edit: Nitro finish |
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| Author: | hanstrocity [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Thank sir. That is an absolutely awesome instrument. The guy I'm working with rarely uses anything but black. How did you prep the surface for him? Any wash coats under the ink or just ink on bare wood? I am assuming you sprayed the nitro? Any sealer coats or products used over the ink but before the nitro? Thank you again my friend. This is gonna be an interesting thing me thinks. Hans |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Ben, that is beautiful! |
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| Author: | Ben-Had [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
We first made sure the inks he was using would hold up to the solvent in the finish and it did. I did go up in grit from my normal sanding to P320. I also sand my bodies a little different than most others in that I lightly mist the wood and dry it with a hair dryer to raise the grain. My schedule is as follows: 100, mist/dry, 150, mist/dry, 150, mist/dry, 220, mist/dry, 220 (and then for this guitar), mist/dry, 320. This made for a nice smooth surface and little rise in the grain from the ink. The ink was applied directly onto bare wood and when I got the body back i immediately applied sanding sealer (2 coats) and then went into my nitro finishing schedule. Thanks for the compliments. |
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| Author: | hanstrocity [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Very interesting stuff. Thank you good sir. I appreciate your stewardship and willingness to share your experience. For the interested forum readers....... I have now received information from many of the experienced people that I initially contacted with questions about everything from application technique to products. In conclusion I have reports of success with: 1) high grit surface prep including raising of the grain (light H2O) with every increased grit, ink on bare wood, followed by a sanding sealer and normal nitro schedule 2) normal sanding surface prep, stain, thin linseed based varnish (2 coats), wet sand with 600 carefully, dye based ink applied with a variety of quills and fountain tips and applicators, and then relatively normal varnish schedule on top (6 coats with wet sand) 3) dewaxed shellac sealer (2 coats of 50/50 cut Zinser), dye based ink markers and pens, followed by tru oil schedule. 4) "2part" poly seal, inkwork done with acrylic or waterbase mediums, poly schedule on top. I also heard report of success when this technique is used in conjunction with "sharpie" markers. 5) CAD designed artwork done with dry ink transfer techniques, alcohol, burnishing sticks, etc. high tech stuff I am not going to research because they do not fall under the scope of what I wish to do or have done to my instrument. By all means, if any of you are interested in this approach, I can refer you to several gentlemen with expertise in several techniques if you are getting nowhere in your own search. Here are some warnings I received: 1) No shellac ever, but especially not on top of ink. This one is interesting to me because others report using it with great success as a sealer beneath ink. Perhaps the discrepancies in success must lie in the compatibility of the products used together. 2) Test Test Test. Without fail, all informants recommend testing on scrap with the full finishing schedule. This is super not convenient when dealing with an artist who lives very far from me, but I think I will heed the advice and send some test panels to him, which he can ink, and then send back, which I can then continue to analyze, etc. etc. ad nauseum until finally bob is your uncle. 3) Application of ink can be strange. Some products will lay down ink a la a dry erase marker on whiteboard (long strokes get thin), while others will require a small nudging technique to get the ink to lay down a la a tattoo artist. One technique is not superior to another, just different. The artist must consider what effect and saturation they are envisioning and choose accordingly. This has been a very interesting research for me. I will add if I find anything further to add. I hope that any and all of you will do the same. Thanks for reading my friends. Hans |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Thanks Hans! |
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| Author: | tysam [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
Look forward to seeing the finished work in the future. Ben........that is a wonderful instrument you and your brother-in law collaborated on.....kudos. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
I'll be experimenting soon. I'm going to try vinyl sealer as a base coat. I don't want to apply the ink to bare wood if I muck up the drawing. I'm not sure if ink will stick to the sealer, but I'll report back. Dan |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finish over ink art |
I used ball point pen and watercolor on bare wood. Both were fine under vinyl sealer. I dampened the wood and then sanded to 400 grit. I just wish I had steadier hands. Dan |
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