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CA for finishing video
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45470		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  CA for finishing video
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/ca00575/#.VRwdUOFQAa5
I received the link to this and wondered if anyone has tried these products on guitars for final finish build.

Fred
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Very interesting Fred. With a little innovation it should make a nice finish for bigger projects that are not on a spindle. I have heard people talk about it. Don't know if it has been done.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
I've used CA for pore filling, and it worked great for that. I have considered using it as a final finish, but getting it to go on smoothly and uniformly would be a problem, it doesn't level up much. Sanding through would be way too easy. This only applies to the thin CA from StewMac, that's all I've used for pore filling.

I suspect the formulation could be modified to work as a final finish, I'd be interested to see how this new product works on guitars. The large, flat areas would be the real test, regular CA would work fine for pen blanks.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
I haven't seen the video yet but my eyes are burning just thinking about it. I did a piece of veneer with CA for a pickguard. It was harder than I thought it would be to get good level coverage (in addition to the fumes making me want to run away). I'm hoping this video will have some tips I hadn't considered. As it stands I couldn't imagine doing a whole guitar without ending up with a lumpy mess to level sand, but I would love to learn how even if I only used it for peghead veneers and pickguards.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Check out Gear Up products and their odorless CA meant as a finish. Sponsors here...at least they were...
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Bryan Bear wrote:
I haven't seen the video yet but my eyes are burning just thinking about it. I did a piece of veneer with CA for a pickguard. It was harder than I thought it would be to get good level coverage (in addition to the fumes making me want to run away). I'm hoping this video will have some tips I hadn't considered. As it stands I couldn't imagine doing a whole guitar without ending up with a lumpy mess to level sand, but I would love to learn how even if I only used it for peghead veneers and pickguards.


Putting a fan at your back helps, as does doing it outside.
I agree on the lumpy mess to level sand.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
I have finished a number of fingerboards (fretless basses) and some maple necks with CA. Done right, it buffs out beautifully, and is very hard. Of course, we already know it's great for touch-ups.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Yes if I ever CA anything as a surface I will for sure do it outside. I think I am becoming more sensitive to the fumes. Even using it to glue bindings is starting to get annoying. My shop has no windows so eventually I may find myself going outside when I use it for anything. I hope I never get to that point because it would be most inconvenient.

I've heard of odorless CA before but never encountered it. Does it perform as well? Does it cost twice as much?
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Chris, I'd love to hear more about your process.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Image

I use this now whenever pouring or sanding CA as I'm becoming sensitized as well.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
http://www.gearupproducts.com/
Author:  tysam [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
I just received an email from LMI about their glue sale on now and I noticed they are selling two different thicknesses of CA that are odorless. Haven't tried them myself but think I will.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Quote:
Chris, I'd love to hear more about your process.


Basically, it's Dan Erlewine's process from back in the 80's. Use thin CA, wear heavy rubber gloves, and apply with the back of wet-or-dry sandpaper. NEVER stop or reverse course on the wood. You'll stick to it. Apply a couple coats, sand back to satin, apply a couple more, sand back, and buff out. I did it inside a couple times, wearing my mask with brand new charcoal filters. Makes your eyes burn terribly! Afterwards, only did it outside in a breeze. Charge the same as a lacquer finish, but you can do it in a couple days. That's good business!
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Starbond odorless thin CA. Costs 80 bucks for 16 oz, not 23 for 2 oz. Get Starbond aerosol accelerator. Use Black Shield powderless nitrile gloves. Yeah, it's a little hard to level but keep coats thin. Sand lightly between coats. Shellac first on softwoods and the neck. Enough for 3-4 guitars. Still use the mask but mostly needed for the accelerator. Spray accelerator outside. Buff with Menzerna.
Author:  kencierp [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
I am happy with many other finishing systems so I'd would not even consider CA until there's 20 years of history "and there is a top of the line mass producer using it". Now, Woodcraft inadvertently sent me some of their CA finish instead of glue http://www.woodcraft.com/product/851687 ... g-kit.aspx and for sure it is nothing like CA adhesive, just a heads up that the finishing chemical is not the same as Zap or Hot Stuff etc.
Author:  kencierp [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Google searching CA as a wood finish seems that "brittle and chips easily" are the most prominent "cons" mentioned.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Ken Franklin wrote:
Starbond odorless thin CA. Costs 80 bucks for 16 oz, not 23 for 2 oz. Get Starbond aerosol accelerator. Use Black Shield powderless nitrile gloves. Yeah, it's a little hard to level but keep coats thin. Sand lightly between coats. Shellac first on softwoods and the neck. Enough for 3-4 guitars. Still use the mask but mostly needed for the accelerator. Spray accelerator outside. Buff with Menzerna.

Nice looking finish Ken!

I would like to know more about the "ca finish" that Stick Fast, Gear Up and Starbond are all offering.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
pat macaluso wrote:
Ken Franklin wrote:
Starbond odorless thin CA. Costs 80 bucks for 16 oz, not 23 for 2 oz. Get Starbond aerosol accelerator. Use Black Shield powderless nitrile gloves. Yeah, it's a little hard to level but keep coats thin. Sand lightly between coats. Shellac first on softwoods and the neck. Enough for 3-4 guitars. Still use the mask but mostly needed for the accelerator. Spray accelerator outside. Buff with Menzerna.

Nice looking finish Ken!

I would like to know more about the "ca finish" that Stick Fast, Gear Up and Starbond are all offering.


I don't know anything about Stick Fast or Gear Up but I have used Starbond which isn't sold as a finish and now that I'm more proficient at application it has become my preferred finish. It's not brittle and it doesn't chip easily, though brittleness is not always a bad thing. Think of the old Martins with crazed, brittle nitro finishes. But I digress.

Think of all the advantages. The pore fill is the finish. There is no barrier between them. Each coat ties into the next which is probably why chipping is not an issue and there is no fisheye. No expensive equipment is needed to apply it, though you do need good equipment to buff it, but that's true for most finishes. It doesn't react to a person's body chemistry or case linings like nitro, french polish or some waterborne finishes do. Though not as tough as polyester, it's a lot tougher than most finishes. It doesn't off gas for days or months. My wife comes into the shop almost right after application which she wouldn't do for days after I'd hung up a lacquer sprayed guitar. It can be applied very thinly. It wets the wood well. It ages gracefully. Though it doesn't yellow over time the wood becomes richer looking. I've been using it for over four years now. Even the big boys don't have a twenty year history with some of the finishes they're using now. And what do many repair people use to repair finishes? CA.

I think that it hasn't become widely used because people think of the CA fumes and the expense of 2 oz bottles. Neither of those problems exist with Starbond. BSi Gold doesn't fume either, but it's expensive. I don't know about others like Gear Up. Do they fume? Someone will have to let me know but it's expensive too. The big boys probably don't use it because it takes some skill to apply.

The instruments I make now sound as good or better than the ones I made with lacquer finishes. Come on down to the Memphis Acoustic Guitar Festival in June and check them out.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Thanks for the in-depth review Ken! It's nice to hear from somebody with your experience. There is one testimony on the Starbond site about an 18 year old application that is still good.

I got sensitized to it a while back. one good wiff and my nose was completely useless for 24 hours. However, using a fan or doing it outside has virtually eliminated the problem.
Author:  kencierp [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA for finishing video
Quote:
There is one testimony on the Starbond site about an 18 year old application that is still good.


I think I saw that testimonial too, its for flexible Starbond and the guy applies 60 coats -- seems like a lot of CA! But I believe it was on a sword handle or something like that?
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