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I've made my way through a couple of guitars and various woodworking projects over the years without a proper set of bench chisels. The yellow handle Stanley's I've been using have been... fine... I guess... but, I'd like to buy myself a nice set. The three manufacturers I've been looking at are: Lie Nielsen, Veritas and Blue Spruce. I know plenty of these chisels have found their way into the hands of woodworkers the world over and all have their merits. I kind of wish I could combine all three to create a super-chisel. The Blue Spruce are stunning in their beauty. I love the old-world design of the Lie Nielsen. Veritas offers what, according to most accounts, seems to be a superior steel in the powdered metal they use.

I'm not asking anyone to make a decision for me, but I'd like to ask a few questions to help me along in my quest. Is the A2 steel used in the BS and LN chisels really as hated as it seems amongst online forums? Most of what we as instrument makers do is really more in the realm of paring, rather than chopping. Generally, most like lower bevel angles for this sort of task. In real life testing though, does the higher bevel angles (30+ degrees) required of A2 diminish the ability of a chisel to do what we want it to do? Is this all over blown?

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sweat the small stuff.

Actually your Yellow handled Stanley's are probably perfectly adequate for making musical instruments. I very much doubt that things will improve by buying different chisels. Of course chisels like Blue Spruce are finer made and perhaps will give you a different 'feel' to your working. That's perfectly OK to think like that. A2 isn't really going to transform your life though.

Hi Heath

I have a few BS dovetailing chisels on the way. I plan to fill out my heavier bench chisels with Ashley Iles Mark 2's. I have a few of the Ashley Iles roundback dovetail chisels and like them quite a bit. I'm mentioning them only because they're another high quality option to consider.

I've had a full set of Marples (likely Stanley elsewhere) yellow/red handles for years. They're OK, but the metal is relatively soft and won't hold an edge long enough to carve a set of spruce back braces. And they're too short to work well as paring chisels. I thought I'd make a longer chisel out of harder steel and see how it worked. So I made a chisel out of a worn out 3/4" flat file, grinding the teeth off only at the business end and keeping it all very cool as I did this and put a 20 degree primary bevel on. The steel is really hard. The edge can be chipped if abused, but for guitar work it holds an edge really well, is easy to sharpen on DMT "stones" and will hold up to carving a full set of hard spruce back braces (16 scallops on my standard design) easily outlasting some HSS I've tried. The down sides of this chisel is that it could be longer and more flexible. It has no "spring" (due to being too thick) which is something I like in paring chisel. It's still one of my "go to" tools.

The message is that for the work we do, we can usefully use much harder steels than would be available from manufacturers making chisels for general use. But don't use a mallet on them.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I have 2 Blue Spruce long paring chisels and one bench chisel and they are superior tools. Hold a great edge forever, nice angle ground on the sides so you can cut full width in tight spots etc I'll have a complete set this year.

I have a set of the Ashly Iles bench chisels and one of them the edge chips easily and the other three the edge will turn..... seems like a heat treat problem.

+1 for Ashley Isles mk2 had mine for 2 years and never had a problem.

Bob

Yeah, I'm not really expecting earth-shattering performance from a new set of chisels. The Stanley's, though, at 7 1/2" long are pretty short for paring. I'll admit, too, to finding inspiration in the beauty of an heirloom quality tool. The Stanley's definitely are not that.

James, thanks for mentioning the AI chisels. I know a lot of people like them, but I've found the reviews to be widely mixed. I dunno. I'd love to hear how you like the BS paring chisels when you get a chance to test drive them though. Long or standard?

Thanks for that bit of advice, Trevor. I think that's basically what I was getting at with my original question. Is today's steel, i.e. A2, suited to paring at lower bevel angles? It's well documented that it won't hold up at bevels lower than 30 degrees when struck with a mallet. Anyway, I'm over thinking it. I'll pick a nice set and they'll likely serve me (and hopefully my children) well. I think I'll probably end up with one or two long parers in the near future, also.

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sweat the small stuff.

There is no significant performance difference between a Stanley/Marples and a Lie-Nielsen, etc. when they are equally sharp. However, they will not stay equally sharp.

I use a set of blue steel Japanese chisels. They stay extremely sharp. Really super sharp. They hold that sharp edge long enough that you don't mind taking a minute to hone one when you start to feel it drag a little. In fact, you feel compelled to hone it, because you have become spoiled by the joy of using a super sharp chisel.

Before my Japanese chisels, I used Stanleys and Marples. They would achieve that same level of sharpness, but it would be gone within 10 seconds of cutting. No one hones their chisel every ten seconds. So, for all practical purposes, the way we use those chisels in the real world, they simply aren't as sharp. It's a huge difference. Monumental.

Once you start looking at the better chisels, I don't think it matters that much which ones you go with. Lie-Nielsens are great. Two Cherries are very nice. My Japanese chisels are great. Any of the higher quality chisels will give you a very long-lasting sharp edge. There are subtle differences, but the main thing is that they hold a sharp edge, and the great chisels all do that very well.

Hmmm... Tool topics! my 0.002
Veritas and LN will be too short for paring. I'd go for blue spruce (amongst your options) for paring stuff and probably a couple of veritas ( say 1/4 and 1/2 inch) bench. I don't own any blue spruce, mind you - for paring stuff I use a couple of chisels from a small independent Dutch maker which I really love (wilco flier, if you feel like googling). Ashley isles I have and like , they're very flexible and give great feedback but don't hold the edge that well. I use them mainly for refining stuff. My main problems with A2 are : flattening the back is a pain (ok , you only do that once) and sharpening is kind of boring, they have a gummy feel on my wet stones. PM v11 does seem to hold the edge longer and isn't harder to sharpen, but it costs more. That said, an old berg Swedish steel is a wonderful tool to use and a breeze to sharpen. Or a good old Japanese white steel, like a kunikei. Oh, tool lust...

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

"to finding inspiration in the beauty of an heirloom quality tool."

Many of my favorite chisels are those I've found at the flea market. I enjoy finding a nice old Witherby, Berg, or even a well made "no name" chisel for a few bucks, sharpening it, and putting it to use. Not being a set, they don't match, but each is unique. Heirlooms without airs.
I don't pay attention to steel specifications or the latest "treatments " of it. Assuming the tool has decent steel, I find the way it balances in my hand to be more important.

Going from a 25 to 30 degree bevel gives you a substantial improvement in edge retention. Unfortunately, I also feel that it makes the feel of the cut much less "scalpel" like. When cutting delicate miters or other such work, I greatly prefer a 25 degree bevel angle.

Here's my conclusion and I have spent a lot of time on this:

A2 steel is very good but nowhere near as good as the PMV-11. It is without question a better steel - however, Japanese chisels offer an even superior metal. I have some Tasai chisels (Blue steel) and some Yamahiro chisels (white steel). I actually find the white steel to be better than the blue steel, which is hard and brittle. At 25 degrees and with exotics like Ebony, I just find the metal to be too hard and too easy to chip. However, at 30 degrees, the blue steel Tasai chisels are absolute beasts. The white steel also takes an incredible edge and is ridiculously sharp.

For A2 steel, Blue spruce and Lie-Nielsen are great -- I prefer the feel of the Blue Spruce tho'. However, if not going to Japanese steel -- I really do recommend the Lee Valley PMV-11 chisels. The sharpen very well and the edge is not very brittle at all but still retains good strength. In terms of bang for the buck, the Lee Valley are the best. A good set of 6 Japanese chisels will set you back close to $700 - I spent a grand each for the Tasai and Yamahiro sets.

For a modest set of cabinetmakers chisels I bought a set of STUBAI austrian chisels very reasonable from diefenbacher tools in st louis. The quality is on par with 2 cherries ,but at a lower price . I have a set of japanese temple carvers chisels with long handles circa 1979. they were an excellent buy from LV . I have an older set of blue marples circa 1975 that are used for rough carpentry/cabinet work. Their worn down and won/t hold an edge for long.My favorite carving chisels are the swiss or pfeil I have a set bought in 1972 .They are a compromise , they are easily sharpened are extremely sharp and fairly priced .They are my go to chisels for light pairing. I also have japanese and chinese light carving chisels for light duty shop work that are adequate for luthiery tasks.

Thanks for mentioning that, "Simon". I was thinking about the conversation we had about your Japanese chisels and couldn't remember the maker you really liked.

Heath, I can't wait to get them! The maker emailed me to say he's running a little behind on the cocobolo dovetail chisels, and I let him know I'm in no rush. I'll let you know. I ordered three specifically for dovetailing, but I think they'll be great for guitar work because they're a bit more delicate than the bench chisels.

Ashley Iles are a crapshoot. I have a 1/4" and a 3/4" Mk. 2 that are worthless. If you look at them funny the edge crumbles. The US retailer did not stand behind them nor did I ever hear anything from Ashley Iles after emailing them to let them know of the problem. So much for the guarantee. Ashley Iles aren't expensive, but I would much rather have put the money I spent on them towards a really nice chisel.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Over the years I have not heard great things about Sorby paring chisels. I have a set of Sorby Timber Framing chisels that I love so I bought four Sorby paring chisels as well. I also have a nice Blue Spruce 1/2" paring chisel. I personally prefer the 1/2" Sorby paring chisel to the Blue Spruce. It is a pleasure to use. My favourite slick for timber work is a Japanese one and my favourite bench chisels are also Japanese but I also have a set of Hirsch Chisels which work well. In the early 80's I bought a set of Footprints, Sheffield steel (red handles). They are very nice chisels, thin blades with a bit of length, sharpen well and hold that edge!

As has been said, most anything decent will work just fine!

Shane

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Canada

Miguel, there's a long paring chisel on Wilco Flier's website that says it's headed to Portugal. Is that yours? Pretty cool.

Toonces, aesthetically, I wish I could get behind the Japanese chisels. I've only heard rave reviews of the steel. Everyone seems to love them. I know the way a chisel looks is really of tertiary concern, but I just think they're butt ugly! I couldn't handle picking them up to use everyday. Maybe that would change if I had a chance to use one. I guess we'll never know.

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sweat the small stuff.

Not relevant to OP, but...

I must be missing out on something. I was given some blue handled Footprints a long long time ago.

When the Gore/Gilet books came out, I took the 1" one and sharpened it and rounded the corners. Since then I've made more than 100 guitars and have recently re sharpened it for the second time.

Same with the Boone planes. I finally had to sharpen it again. So I'm getting about 50 axes per sharpening, full carve downs from square...

Maybe I need to do it more often?

I've had a set of 4 AI MK 2's for a few years. I also got to try a set that a friend bought, that was before I purchased mine. None of them show poor steel quality.
They are a nice accurately made chisel. I'm surprised that either the retailer or Ashley Iles failed to respond.

FWIW Stepen Boone uses O-1 tool steel in his planes and they do stay sharp a long time.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Heath: it must be my chisel. I sent him a piece of old BRW so he could turn a posh handle for it. I really like wilco's chisels feedback and feel. And he's a nice guy too.

Good luck,
Miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Yesterday a salesman from AT&T came up into our shop and wanted to talk to us about converting our phones from copper to digital. One of the first things out of my mouth (after determining that he was not a customer....) was "what's in it for us..." Although this took my business partner back a bit, the directness, etc. I'll tie it in to this thread now.

We have lots of chisels from various makers and there are some things that we like about certain chisels and of course things that we may not be too keen about either.

I know that some of you guys, perhaps most, are woodworkers and enjoy collecting tools, having full matching sets, etc.

For me though when it comes to tool purchases I am very much a "what's in it for me" kind of guy who attempts to keep in mind the kind of work that we do and as such what the requirements from our tools will be.

With this said no single brand or maker of chisels would ever keep me happy. Different brands seem to do different things, real life every day things, that we need to do to accomplish our work differently. Mind you our stuff is used for commercial purposes which also means that it has to work well, be repeatable, and take minimal time to maintain.

Brands aside a very sharp chisel is a joy to use.... As such the steel is important in how it holds an edge and of course no one wants to have to do unnatural acts to get it sharp and keep it sharp either.

I like quality Japanese chisels for things such as cleaning up where the nut goes and I have a 4mm one that is perfect for that. I have blue spruce chisels too and like them a great deal for things such as brace carving and the dovetail chisel is great for rebuilding the dovetail for neck resets. I also like the BS handles a great deal too.

The LMI curved chisel is also a favorite and mine has Hock steel on it. It's great for brace carving too and excellent for it's stated purpose of cleaning up glue after bracing.

With BS chisels the sides can be a bit sharp but this is my only complaint.

The micro chisels from Stew-Mac also get a shout out and are excellent for many things including cleaning up glue squeeze out next to frets when fretting or refetting. They are inexpensive but nothing else does what they do in these sizes.

For cleaning up old glue under a lifted and removed bridge I like the Japanese chisels once again and the size and balance seems to fit my hands well.

Anyway as you can see I'm providing examples of not only what works for me but how we use them or more specifically our applications of these tools. It's back to the what's in it for me thing or more precisely what my recommendations are used for, often daily.

Just like a guitar is ultimately a tool for a musician regardless of the other things that they can represent to us all our tools are used to do work, quality work, and as such my suggestion to posters who are making recommendations is to also let us know how you use your chisels in respect to Lutherie as well as how well they work for you. Folks tend to wake up a bit more when things are couched in the context of the value that something may specifically provide.

Lastly I would never be happy with any one set. Again different jobs benefit from different approaches to chisels, length, width of course...., the quality of the steel in both holding an edge and achieving an edge. It's also nice to have choices when one is too lazy to get out the water stones....

I'm using plain ol' Two Cherries chisels. Not as exotic as many mentioned, but they work well for me.

I think someone is sneaking in at night and sharpening your chisels for you!

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sweat the small stuff.

Hesh, that's a good perspective, especially if we're just talking about luthiery. I don't do as much woodworking as I'd like, but my interests go beyond building guitars. Honestly, I think what a lot of this boils down to, for me, is economics. Right now, I think I'd like to buy a good set of "all-around" type chisels, which is why they're called bench chisels, I think. They're always out on your bench! As time and money permit, there are a number of other chisels I'd like to own. As you pointed out, one set won't do it all, at least not well. It's funny, I asked about bevel angles and have been all worked up about steel types. Out of curiosity, I went out to my shop and measured the bevel angles on my chisels. Turns out, they're right about 30 degrees, except my 1/2", which I use most often. Somehow over time the bevel angle crept up to around 45 degrees! I've been happy as a clam using it that way! Oh, well.

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sweat the small stuff.

"A good set of 6 Japanese chisels will set you back close to $700 - I spent a grand each for the Tasai and Yamahiro sets."

This illness, it's not catchable right? It's some kind of genetic mutation and not caused by a virus or anything... right?