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| Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44905 |
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| Author: | guitarradTJ [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Hello to all, I'm about to start my first build and I'm starting to shop for some tools. Specifically planes and chisels. Looking at the LMI website, they are way out of my price range. I'm sure they are excellent quality, but I simply can't afford them at that price.....or I could buy the tools and leave the guitar kit for down the road! Anyway, I know good, quality tools are a must so I'm wondering what advice do you have for someone who's just starting out. Can I go to Harbor Freight and buy a cheap plane and buy a nice blade from LMI? There's an antiques shop closer to me that sells old wood working tools, I'm planning on checking them out this weekend but I'm not sure what to look for in terms of quality. Just finished the Cumpiano and Natelson book, they recommend a block plane, a #3 or #4 smoothing plane. Thanks for any advice! |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
If there's a flea market in your area, there are usually great numbers of old Stanley planes for sale for cheap. For decades these were required tools of every tradesman, and there are a lot out there. With some time and effort to flatten the soles and sharpen the blades, they'll work just fine. Same deal with chisels, but look for paring chisels with the long blades. I'd imagine an antique shop would tend to overcharge for them, but maybe not. IMO you are throwing away your money with most HF tools. Nothing worse than a cheap plane that doesn't work. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
As for chisels, sometimes you can find pretty good ones for cheap. I know I have some Indian made chisels that I bought at WT Tool Warehouse. They were like $2.00 apiece. They are great chisels, and one of them is my go-to chisel for lots of things. I also have a set of Crown chisels that I bought on sale, and they are just fine as well. The hardest to find were 2mm sizes, and I had to pay for good ones. Check out some of the "store brands" for Lee Valley, Woodcraft and Highland Woodworking. Check toolsforworkingwood.com, and jamestowndistributors.com. There are some good deals out there if you look. You don't need the best, but buy the best you can, or buy used and get better at a break in price. |
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| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
A good block plane and a good #5 are all you really need by way of planes on a budget. In my arsenal, of the bench planes, the least used planes (almost never used) are the #3 and #4. The most used the 5-1/2 and the 6. Sizes 4-1/2, 5-1/2, 6 and 7 all take the same sized blades, so they can be interchanged. If you have more to spend, go for either a Veritas or Lie-Nielsen low angle block plane and a Veritas adjustable mouth bevel up jack (#62-1/2). Then add a high angle block plane. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Good tools are not cheap. In the states, new, relatively inexpensive, Wood River planes have a good name, and many places, including Lee Valley, sell Narex chisels - also get good press (I use an 3/4") and both are likely to need less preparing. Ashley Iles dovetail chisels are finer and really nice, but about twice the prices, still not too bad at about $25-30. Second hand, older Stanley planes can be found in flea markets, ebay, antique shops, garage sales, but it helps to know what you are looking for in terms of condition and prices. But used chisels generally seem to be abused,, and tend to be a minefield for the absolute novice, and I would buy new, sizes as you need them. Even new, tools will require fettling (flattening plane soles, chisel backs, etc) - plenty advice and videos on the net (and here) but it takes time, a well flat surface and quite a bit of abrasive. Trevor's advice, a good #5 and low angle block plane initially is sound, but it's easy to buy a dog - do you have a friend who knows tools? |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
1/4, 1/2, and a 1 inch chisel is all that is really required. Even the 1 inch can be omitted. Old Chisels can be had for very little and 1/4, 1/2 and 1 inch are very common. An old Stanley 102 will suffice for a Block Plane. No adjuster but they aren't that difficult to adjust with a bit of practice. They are very light weight so you'll need to get the blade super sharp. Used, they cost next to nothing. And before anyone starts laughing I know of quite a few Violin makers who use the Stanley 102 for truing their Ebony fingerboards. One well known makers leaves his Lie Nielsen equivalent on the shelf and uses the Stanley! A Stanley 5 1/2 can be used for both jointing and thicknessing. Wouldn't be my ideal but it's all I used for my first 4 or 5 Guitars. Look for slightly older models. You can usually tell because the very top of the blade has sharp square corners, newer types have those same corners slightly rounded. It's a rough and ready check, although not foolproof. $50 or less should get you a very decent example. In fact you should be able to pick up the 102, the 5 1/2 and the Chisels for $80 or even less. |
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| Author: | dnf777 [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Few things in life are more satisfying than polishing up a pre-war blade and finding that it works wood better than anything out there today! Someone else just posted about Stanley Sweethearts being released again for a very reasonable price, for a decent quality tool. I got them for around $85 (4 chisel set). Had to work them on a waterstone, but in the end produced a nice edge. How it holds up, yet to be determined. I think you can order them through OLF, to support this site. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I enjoy the hunt. I have a few local flea markets that I usually find good old tools. I have a collection of planes and chisels many older early 1900 and 1800 , few I paid more than $5 for. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I started out using the LeeValley house brand of chisels. They were good, and I made a lot of guitars with them. But a few years back I upgraded to the Stanley Sweetheart Chisels, which I really like. The only sizes I use are ⅛, ¼, and ½. So I never buy a complete set. Used tools can be a good option (like everyone has said) if you know what to look for. http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=67689&cat=1,41504 |
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| Author: | klooker [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I don't know where you're located, if in the states, check your local Craigslist for tools. Old planes are usually the best way to go if you're on a budget but you need to check them out with a good straight edge. If you buy old, I'd recommend replacing the blade with a Hock blade. You'll also need to invest in sharpening equipment. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Phil J [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Josh H wrote: I started out using the LeeValley house brand of chisels. They were good, and I made a lot of guitars with them. But a few years back I upgraded to the Stanley Sweetheart Chisels, which I really like. The only sizes I use are ⅛, ¼, and ½. So I never buy a complete set. Used tools can be a good option (like everyone has said) if you know what to look for. http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=67689&cat=1,41504 I'm just an amateur so my opinion isn't worth much, but that being said I started out using cheap hardware store chisels and while they worked, they never kept an edge. Upgraded and bought a couple Stanley Sweetheart chisels and found an amazing difference. More comfortable to hold and use and stay sharper longer. And they really aren't that expensive either! |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I've got a set of these. They aren't the be all end all but... I would also add an 1/8" to the mix. I find myself using it all the time. http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/a ... bench.html Cheers, M |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Ebay, Craigs list flee markets are a great source for Stanley planes, if the blade has the sweetheart logo it is older, they will always need a bit of work but there is plenty of online info for restoring old tools. For chisels I use the Hersh brand from Lee Valley same as the Two Cherries brand, they hold an edge real well if sharpened properly. http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.a ... at=1,41504 The most important thing is to learn to sharpen the blades also plenty of online information. I recently purchased a Worksharp 3000 with the wide blade option and it really shortened the sharpening process and the blades come out as good as I was getting with stones, scary sharp sand paper method using a sharpening guide but with way less work. I have and used this guide for many years and ir works real well. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 43078&ap=1 |
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| Author: | TimAllen [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Seems like all these suggestions are good. I'd just like to add a perspective, based on my own experience. You can save money on a guitar by buying a old used one and fixing it. On the other hand, the average first-time guitar buyer will not have the expertise to succeed at this. Guitar making is not an inexpensive hobby. You can save money finding bargains at flea markets, if you are knowledgable about how to select old tools, have the time to hunt, and are skilled at reconditioning them. You are essentially substituting time and expertise for money. A lot of us, like John Hall, enjoy the hunt, and most of the skills for reconditioning tools are about the same as the ones you need to learn to keep them in good condition. Nevertheless, there's no such thing as a free lunch. A middle of the road approach that's worked for me is, as suggested above, is to buy house brand chisels that--though not a bargain--are a decent value. I have been happy with the Japan Woodworker house brand. I've also been happy with three older Stanley planes I bought on eBay after reading up on line, and getting an in-person plane tutorial from my brother in law. Buying from well-rated dealers, who showed lots of pictures, worked well for me. The planes I bought were already pretty well tuned. They were not as cheap as a great deal you could find at a flea market, but they were worth the money I paid. As those of us who visit flea markets know, a lot of the "deals" they offer there are snares for the inexperienced buyer. eBay is full of snares as well, but there are some decent deals there if you take your time and have some basic knowledge. In terms of tool buying, like everything else in lutherie, you learn as you go, so it's not wise to buy all your tools at the start. Buy the minimum, as you need them, and you'll learn what tools--and what buying strategies--work for you. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Relatively safe to buy from someone like Walt, who has obviously been in the tool dealing business for a long time. Doing so prevents you from getting the Ebay special that has that hairline crack or some other fault not so obvious to the uninitiated. You may pay a little more but he's hardly expensive. Unfortunately high postage costs to the UK has always prevented me from ordering. http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolwor ... tools.html |
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| Author: | Bri [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Definetly ebay for the used planes. While stanleys are the best known and collected, other brands like sargent, union, millers falls and my favorite vaughn and bushnell can be had for a song. Avoid anything with cracked or broken castings or chipped out mouths. If the cap or iron is missing, they are replacable. Most older planes benefit greatly from a modern blade such as a hoch or veritas. As for chisels, the best value I have seen are the narex. An excellent quality chisel for the price. Search on Ebay also. My go to planes are a stanley 60 1/2, then a bedrock #5. Happy shopping B |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I don't know what the obsession is with replacement blades. One of the very best blades I have is a late 19 th century Stanley Rule and level blade. Thin but very good. I also have an old British Acorn from the 1930's which is also very good. They are at least as good as my Veritas, and the LN and Ray Iles aftermarket blades. Most blades that I've tried that have the square corners have been good. Even some later ones have been fine. Try the blade that comes with the Plane. It just might surprise you. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Michael.N. wrote: I don't know what the obsession is with replacement blades. One of the very best blades I have is a late 19 th century Stanley Rule and level blade. Thin but very good. I also have an old British Acorn from the 1930's which is also very good. They are at least as good as my Veritas, and the LN and Ray Iles aftermarket blades. Most blades that I've tried that have the square corners have been good. Even some later ones have been fine. Try the blade that comes with the Plane. It just might surprise you. No obsession, I suggested that if a plane had a missing blade, replacements are easy to come by. But.. Over the past 100+ years the quality of stanleys tools has varied drastically. Profitability,economics and availability of raw materials all played a large part in the final quality of the tool. This is one reason some years of production are more collectable and desirable. I currently own around 70 planes and most of them have the original iron in them. A few have been replaced with more modern blades wich are thicker and generally a higher quality of steel. The newer irons being thicker are therefore less prone to chatter, resulting in a smoother working plane. The argument as to whether it is better to have harder steel for longer lasting edge and fewer sharpenings or a milder steel that is easier to sharpen will depend on your own preferences and working habits. My own experience is that the modern blade is a substantial improvement. Of course none of this means squat if the plane is not properly tuned. Anyone who regularily uses a plane should know the basics of a plane tune-up. There are numerous article online on this very subject B |
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| Author: | guitarradTJ [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Thanks for all the replies!! This is all great advice. I'm going to take my time and look for the right tool set in my budget.... |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I'm a flea market fan, too--and a yard sale fan. I got a 22" Stanley jointer, circa 1890s, in great condition for $16 at a yard sale about twenty years ago. Whenever I see a chisel with potential (especially a socket chisel with a decent socket) at a flea market, I pick it up. I don't mind making news handles if that is necessary. The steels are not all created equally, but I've never picked up one that I would consider "bad". |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
Raul, if you're interested, I'm going to put my 6mm and 12mm LMI chisels up for sale in the Classifieds just as soon as I can get a few pics. Both in great condition. As far as planes go, I have: - Lie-Nielsen #5 - Just scored a gorgeous Bedrock #4 on eBay for half of what you typically see them going for. In the process of restoring it. - Lie-Nielsen low angle block plane - Lie-Nielsen Model Maker's plane - And one of fellow OLFer Stephen Boone's finger planes (see the sponsors above). - Eyeing a #7 on eBay. No peeking. Flattening the sole on one of these will not be fun. The low-angle block is the one I use the most. By far. The #5 was my first, and the jobs I use it for in guitar-making would be better suited for a #6. That's what I'd choose were I to do it again. If you're not planning to thickness your top, back and sides with a plane, you can build a guitar with a nice low angle block like the Lie-Nielsen for $165, or the WoodRiver for $99. |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I will have to echo the flea market/garage sale method. I have found that getting a bargain on eBay is a long shot because of shipping - a #4 goes for $12. If you can find a local woodworking club, there is always someone who has spares they are willing to pass along to someone without. Nothing is more personal than your selection of planes - I have over 150 down there, and tend to use the Stanley Bedrocks - the plane that L-N copied. As an example, for guitar work, I have no use for a #7, but plenty for a #3 and #5. A actually use a #5-1/4 most - it is the width of 3 at 12" long - very handy for guitar sized stuff. YMMV PM for a selection of good used planes and chisels at reasonable prices. Ed |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I started out on the parsimonious side myself. I went with 4 of the two cherry chisels and a nice block plan and a number 4 from Record Planes, when home Depot still had them. I still use them all and would recommend them. |
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| Author: | Leftyprs [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I've had a set of these Narex chisels from Lee Valley for about a year now, and they have been great to work with as well as great at holding an edge. I've seen several reviews done on these chisels, and they all seem to agree that they are a great chisel, especially for the money. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.a ... at=1,41504 
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| Author: | Michiyuki Kubo [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for reasonably priced planes and chisels |
I had bought a set of stubai chisels new for about 80€ 6 chisels inside and I use them all for different things. I am relatively a newbie but found I didn't need to sharpen them as much as a second hand chisels of unknown brand. Kept there sharpness is what I mean. For planes I bought a cheapo jack plane and the blade sucks, I only use it for soft woods. I have an old wooden plane and the blade on that is way superior. Austrian maker from Vienna. The only problem with it is it's a pain to set up right because it relies on the friction of the wood to lock it in place. I bought a silver line leveling plane and it works fine, it needs to be sharpened more often than the wooden iron but otherwise very easy to adjust and use. All in all the best for comfort is the English plane but the blade needs sharpening more often than I'd like. The wooden plane has an amazing blade but the set up can take a while if you are not used to it. |
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