We took a different approach for our electric pipe benders -- a 3"x6" blanket provide the heat source. We purchased inexpensive thick wall aluminum pipe of various diameters from "Speedy Metals"
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| PID Temerature control - questions http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44892 |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | PID Temerature control - questions |
So I've done a search of the archives and while there is lots of information there I'm still feeling a little bit lost. I've got the basic idea of the temperature controller however some of the terms are lost on me. I'm confident that I can build it but I think I'll need some help from guys like Fred Tellier and Dave Fifield. This is probably the best archived discussion on the subject however my pea brain still has a few questions. I'm looking at this PID temperature controller w/ timer but I'll still need a few components to make it all work. Question, what's the difference between the SSR control in the controller linked above and the relay contactor in this model That's the first question. After I gather all the components, I may have a few more....I'm sure. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
I'm not the guy that knows but this will bump it up some. I don't really know but I suspect the SSR (Solid State Relay) version will require a separate SSR unit. I'm thinking the SSR output off the controller will be something like 12VDC. That output will connect to a SSR relay that will switch the 120VAC to the heating blanket on and off when the controller says to. If the contactor model has the contacts internally then the output should be the same as the input voltage and directly control the blanket. You just have to be sure the unit is rated for at least 10Amp continuous output. But, you are right in saying there are people here that actually know. Hopefully they will be along soon. Also, I just noticed the e-bay seller is the equipment manufacture. I'm sure if you contact them and explain just what you want to do with it they will direct you to the right equipment. Post what you end up with. I might just order the same thing! |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
We bend sides daily on machines with simple 600 watt dimmer switches and a thirty minute timers. But the rage seems to be digital controls, sensors etc. -- So here's a link that might be useful. There's info (links) in this thread that show how to make one of these bad boys parts list, wiring diagram etc. http://acousticguitarconstructionforum. ... f=8&t=2124 |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
Rod, I just got the last of the stuff I need to make a double blanket controller on Friday (except for one more thermocouple which I expect anytime). Fred Tellier has been helping me on some of my questions. My shop is no where near together but I am hungry to make something so I will start putting this all together and will document it so we have it on the OLF. It will take me a couple of days I am sure but I will do a bit this evening and see if I can get the thread started. I have looked for a good thread on this topic but couldn't find one so decided a while ago that I would document the build of the unit. Shane |
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| Author: | Ken Lewis [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
Hello Rod, the SSR output on the first PID is 12 volts and you would need another device to interface with your blanket etc. ie. another relay or the like. the output contact relay on the second PID in your post is rated at 10 amps at 240 volts so probably would run anything that draws 10 amps or less directly. Also, just in case you not know, an SSR does same job as relay or contactor except being solid state has no moving parts. Also there was some discussion as to the best thermocouple to use with a PID for our purposes. As I haven't put one together yet I won't lead you down the garden path. Fred and Shane will get you all straightened away I'm sure. |
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| Author: | DeanP [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
Hi Rod: I used a PID controller, an SSR and a thermocouple to add temperature control to my Fox-style bender as well as built two temperature controlled hot pipe benders and I'm very happy with the results. Attachment: Fox Bender.jpg Attachment: Hot Pipe Benders.jpg Here are the parts I used: Controller and Relay: http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649 Note: This controller only functions in degrees Centigrade, but I don't find that a problem. Also, the controller output must be for SSR control and not just a relay contact. Many cheap PID controllers have relay contact outputs and these will not work to control a SSR. Heater Cartridge : http://www.ebay.com/itm/321384642892?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT Thermocouple: http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649 Here is the wiring diagram for the temperature controlled hot pipe benders. I also used the same parts (minus the heater cartridge) and wiring scheme to add temperature control to my fox bender and I'm really happy with the stable temp control that it gives me. I will add one caveat: I am not an electrician....Use this circuit at your own risk. Attachment: Hot Pipe Bender Schematic.jpg To control your heating blanket for your side bender, you would place the heating blanket in the circuit where I show the heating cartridge. Also, it is very important that you add a timer in the circuit for safety reasons. You can see the timer I added to mine in the picture. It's pretty cool to be able to add PID temperature control to just about anything for ~$30. Dean |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
Rod the 10 amp relay output at 220 volt will handle a blanket real well, I have one with that rating and have bent 30+ sides with and no problem. As for a timer I think a bathroom style timer controlling the output to the blanket is all that is needed to do the job. Fred |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
Just started the thread in the tutorial section. Only at the component mounting stage but will start wiring today. Mine will have a dual digital timer but as Fred states a bathroom timer has been proven to work! Thanks Shane |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
DeanP wrote: I used a PID controller, an SSR and a thermocouple to add temperature control to my Fox-style bender as well as built two temperature controlled hot pipe benders and I'm very happy with the results. Dean, very cool. Thanks for sharing this. What are you using for the flanges on the pipes? Is the heating element in contact with the top of the flange? Bottom? Side? I'd love to put one of these together. Do you have any pics of the internals? |
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| Author: | DeanP [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
James Orr wrote: Dean, very cool. Thanks for sharing this. What are you using for the flanges on the pipes? Is the heating element in contact with the top of the flange? Bottom? Side? I'd love to put one of these together. Do you have any pics of the internals? James: Here's a bit more information: The Parts: Attachment: The Parts.jpg The flanges are simply 0.250" or 0.3125" alum. plate cut to size. I drilled and tapped the alum rod (pipe) and drilled and countersunk corresponding holes in the flange plates. I used some high-temp gasket material between the pipe flanges and the wooden box. Attachment: Pipe Flange.jpg You can see the holes drilled for the heater cartridge (center) and the thermocouple. Attachment: Cartridge Set Screw.jpg I added a set screw to the underside of each pipe to secure the heating cartridge in the pipe. On the inside: Attachment: Pipe Assembly.jpg The SSR is mounted on a piece of alum angle with heat sink compound. SSR's generate some heat during their operation. You can also see the square hole in the right side of the box where the controller will be mounted. Attachment: SSR Mounting.jpg There's really not all that much inside. Hope that helps. Dean |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: PID Temerature control - questions |
We took a different approach for our electric pipe benders -- a 3"x6" blanket provide the heat source. We purchased inexpensive thick wall aluminum pipe of various diameters from "Speedy Metals"
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