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1/4" Locking Jacks
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44881		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  David LaPlante [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  1/4" Locking Jacks
Hi All,
I have a client that would like one of these on his guitar.
A couple of questions:
-Has anyone installed one of these on an acoustic guitar?

-Are there any out there that don't require a humongous hole (24mm)
in the end of the guitar?

-Specifically, has anyone adapted one to use with the K&K??

It looks to me that they are really designed to go into an end panel, not into an end block.

Also I can see that they don't fulfill the dual function of jack and strap button, so that's another problem.

As always,

Thanks!
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
Locking jacks?
Author:  David LaPlante [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
Chris,
I'm assuming this (or something like it) is what my client is referring to:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... 7AodxB8A-g

The plug is locked in and only released when the tab is pushed.
Author:  uvh sam [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
I'm not sure about the size of hole, but a knk can easily be adapted to any jack as the hot leads from each of the sensors all go to the same hot lug on the Jack.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
Thanks Sam,

Thanks excellent info. (seeing that all will need to be re-soldered)

Best
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
Hi David:

If it were my client I would slow them down and get them to explain to me why they believe that they need a locking jack in a Luthier made classical guitar.... It's a VERY unusual request and you are correct the locking receptacles are not designed or engineered for use in a guitar.

Additionally it's a bad idea not only for the level of invasiveness to the instrument there is also the issue of someone tripping on the cord. Normally there is a good chance that a conventional jack will pull out but with a locking jack the guitar gets thrown on the floor since the jack won't give.

Forgive me please if you have addressed the "why...." part of my questions with your client but I have to tell you that it's not unusual for a client or prospective client to have a terrible idea but this does not mean, at least to me..., that we have to jump through hoops to accommodate the dysfunction...

I would be interested to know what the client is attempting to achieve with a big-arse, honking panel plug installed in one of your superb instruments. It could be that they are just not aware of the possibilities for damage to the instrument, the possible impact on tone, and the fact that the thing is butt ugly too.... I also doubt that the mounting plate is radiused either which will make installation look like an after thought.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
I'm curious Hesh,

Where have you actually seen these things used??

Best!
Author:  David Collins [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
I would say it's a bad, unnecessary, and ugly idea on many levels, but perhaps the most effective way to talk the client out of it would be to ask "okay, would you like me to notch out some break lines in the end block itself, or would you prefer a larger portion of the body to shatter out with the jack when you step on the cable?"

That may be a bit exagerated, but there's really no justification I could think of for this type of fitting in any guitar, much less a classical. It's big and ugly, it's not easily reversible or compatible with standard fittings for replacements in the future (pickup technology changes like software, and better systems we have yet to imagine will come out some day, so standard compatibility has value). Then if the cable is yanked hard enough, where do they want the failure - cable pulling out of the jack, wire ripping out from the male plug, or jack ripping out from the wood (with or without the end block)?

As Hesh said though, I'm really curious what possible problem they are attempting to solve, as cables coming loose from a good standard jack is a problem that simply doesn't exist. I'm wondering if they just want something that seems more tough and rugged, without much real need or consideration of other consequences. I'd try to talk them out of it kindly first, and personally would refuse to put one in even if they still insisted.

I've never heard this request before, so this is a new one for me.
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
David LaPlante wrote:
I'm curious Hesh,

Where have you actually seen these things used??

Best!


I have seen locking 1/4" jacks used before but not on a musical instrument.

ENIAC the world's first true digital computer built to calculate ballistic trajectories for battle ships used switchboard-like 1/4" jacks to connect the 19,000 vacuum tubes and was programed by pulling the placing 1/4" jack cables.

When a portion of it was restored in Ann Arbor and brought back to life and now is on display at North Campus it was determined that some cables should never be removed on some of the modern support equipment and locking 1/4" jacks were used for this application.

Not exactly a musical instrument in the pic below but hey it was tube powered...... :D

Image
Author:  DannyV [ Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
I have nothing that will be of any help to you David but a guy playing a classical show needing one of those gets envisioning many funny scenarios and situations where he actually might need it. Hopefully he's rockin' out and playing in my neighbourhood sometime soon. :D
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
The standard K&K jack fitting with a 90 degree plug is a common choice with my classical customers who want a pick-up installed. It's less intrusive than a straight jack when playing in the normal classical sitting position.

Attachment:
90 degree jack.jpg
Author:  Don Williams [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
Yeah, those jacks are made for equipment, not instruments. And they are fading from use these days.
I echo what Hesh, David, and Trevor are saying. Bad idea, use a right angle plug. That's what I've been doing for years.
This reminds me of why I like the magnetic power chord on my Macbook Pro. Someone steps on the chord, and it comes off with no damage to the chord or the laptop. A lock on a guitar like that is asking for more problems than it might appear to solve.
Author:  murrmac [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
Are you quite certain that it is actually a locking "jack" that the client wants, and not a locking "strap" ?

just asking ...
Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
Thanks everyone,

Very useful responses and observations.

Best!
Author:  dberkowitz [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
+1 on Hesh's comments. As a builder I look at it and ask why, and as a sound man, I ask why. From the builder's standpoint, why would you install something that is a) more invasive, b) less discrete, c) unconventional, and d) thoroughly unnecessary. From a sound man's standpoint, again why? Although modern mixing desks have gotten away from 1/4" insert patch points, even the older ones, the famed Midas XL4 did not have locking 1/4" jacks. If your client is so concerned about detachment, give him cables with Neutrik connectors which are really well machined and will lock in place well. Make sure that when you install the jack that the actual jack part sits clear of the button by a few threads so you can be sure that the connecter seats all the way. I think the suggestion for the 90 degree connector is an excellent suggestion as it has a lower profile and is less likely to get smacked. Hesh's comment about wanting the jack to give is really spot on. This is completely unnecessary and quite frankly, I'd approach it from the standpoint that he's unnecessarily devaluing the instrument in the process.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/4" Locking Jacks
When I suggested slowing the client down and having a conversation as to why they believe that they want a locking jack I was quite serious. This is something that I often do in our business and have done much of my life as well.

It's often the case that requests such as these are not baseless and instead someone has a legitimate problem that they are seeking a solution for. As trusted advisors slowing them down and attempting to get to the root of the issue that the client wants a solution for is always a good idea. It also may help prevent a solution that is off the mark as well.

FYI G*bson has a Les Paul model that used or uses this locking panel plug. That's another reason why it's a bad idea if G*bson did it...

Anyway there may be a legitimate concern that the client has and it also may be that there is a better way to address this concern that will make eveyrone happy. Step one is learning what that concern is.
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