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Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44876	Page 1 of 1

Author:	David Newton [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Some Ovations have a mortise & tenon neck joint with epoxy glue filling up the big voids. I won't do these. Go away, don't bother me. Some have a bolt on neck, epoxy glued fretboard extension. These can be done, but not too many customers accept the price. Today I got the go-ahead on one of these. The wood neck has a cast aluminum, epoxy'd in tenon in the heel, that receives a bolt from the body. Once the neck is unbolted, the resin fretboard can be popped loose from the top by driving in a sharp pallet knife from the fretboard end, the epoxy is brittle and cracks away from the top. I had the neck off in about 5 minutes. The reset is the same as any other neck with a wood heel, except the Ovation has an aluminum flange on the tenon that has to be carved away like a wood heel. I use a cheap chisel ground very sharp with a low angle. It sounds stupid but it works. The only reason I am mentioning this is because I made more money per minute of work than a traditional reset.

Author:	DannyV [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
So it sounds like what you are saying is you up charge for the fact you have kept an Ovation in existence.

Author:	David Newton [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Embarrassingly so! I've been repairing for 40 years now. You would not believe what crap guitars I have kept in shape in that time.

Author:	WudWerkr [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Into everyone's life an ovation repair must fall !

Author:	Kent Wilkinson [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Do you have some pictures. I would love to follow this.

Author:	RustySP [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Seems like Ovations have a bad reputation around here. I remember as a teenager I really wanted one and besides, Glenn Campbell played an Ovation. My Dad didn't agree and bought me a Gibson instead, I'm glad he did.

Author:	Hesh [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Good going David, you are a braver soul than I am... I would be inclined to use one of these..... For those who have not had the pleasure of attempting.... to work on an Oation....yet what repair folks hate about them besides everything.... is the use of copious amounts of epxy that does not like to release well with heat. This makes them unserviceable without unnatural acts. Many shops will turn them away and not work on them at all. We take Oations on as a case by case basis and will do some things to.... er... with them but only when no one is looking.... Kind of like going ugly early and not waiting for closing time.... What's always important to note though is that David is helping someone out, we will too at times with Oations, and that's what counts in my book. Good going David!

Author:	jfmckenna [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Kent Wilkinson wrote: Do you have some pictures. I would love to follow this. I would like to see this as well just in case I run into one in the future. I have done one of their mortise/tenon ones in the past. IIRC it was a real PIA. I won't turn back anything if the customer is willing to pay. In most cases when it's real junk it's sentimental so that's cool with me and I make sure to always disclose the value of the instrument VS the price to fix. But hey if they want it I'll do it

Author:	David Newton [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Sorry guys, no pics. By the time I realized it might have been instructional to see how I chiseled away part of an aluminum casting, it was buttoned up.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
You could just saw the neck off and do a bolt on conversion... I did that for a dowel joint mandolin.

Author:	Rodger Knox [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Tai Fu wrote: You could just saw the neck off and do a bolt on conversion... I did that for a dowel joint mandolin. Did you read the original post? It's already a bolt-on joint, and the tenion is aluminum. Probably wouldn't be easy to saw off.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
The fingerboard also wouldn't come off with heat on that mandolin either, so I simply cut the fingerboard in half at the fret where it joined the body, bolted it back on, fixed the binding, and refretted the instrument. It left a huge fallaway but the neck angle is correct.

Author:	KThomas [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Here's what our town did as a solution to this problem, we set up an Electronics, Computer and Ovation Recycling Day. Anyone interested in a 20'x10'x10' block of compacted fiberglass let me know.

Author:	Hesh [ Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Repairs: Resetting the neck on a 90's Ovation
Cutting off the fret board extension though done commonly in the past is very much frowned upon these days... Instead it's either remove the neck completely or consider why you are even taking in something that is not serviceable, requires highly invasive methods to remove, and the associated issues of scope creep as well as having your name on a hacked up repair job. There is also the very real and present issue of the economics of the repair as well. A cheap imported instrument with say AMG (Asian mystery glue) that will not release reliably with heat/moisture would not pass the economics test when the going rate(s) for neck resets likely far exceed the replacement cost of a new, cheap import instrument that is also not serviceable. Sure there are times when we simply want to help someone out or it's our instrument or a friend's or family member and the economics of the repair are not in play nor is the likelihood that your cousin Ester will take it to a repair competitor complaining that you hacked up her $79 Esteban toy guitar. Likewise if you can develop methods to work on these crap-instruments that provide decent results like David has and be true to yourself with the economics while all the while providing the utmost value to the client - go for it. OTOH do this to a paying client and hand it back to them looking less than acceptable and risk 1) a client who gets upset, 2) having to rip up the bill, 3) creating a monument for others to see that your chops are simply not there not to mention judgement as well, and 4) why even go there when there are plenty of serviceable instruments in need of repair.... or the opportunity costs associated with working on basket cases. There is an attraction with hobby Lutherie enthusiasts to take on something, a repair, that will expand their chops. We all want to learn and grow - understood. But that's what eBay beaters are for and never, never should unsound practices be used on a client instrument or you may find that folks will never be beating a path to your door based on positive reputation and proven results... In the past these kinds of comments were met with a hack-perspective proclaiming that I must think that I am too good to be bothered with working on lousy, cheap instruments. What's wrong with this idea besides nearly everything.... is that my concerns are 1) the well being of the personal property of others - the customer and 2) knowing all too well that scope creep happens and unserviceable instruments often cost more to work on than a shop will receive.... and 3) you work on it you own it and everything else that may go wrong in the process.... and 4) it's highly likely that the economics of the repair, what you should be charging.... and what the stinkin thing would cost to replace represent a major disconnect. I'll add that lots of shops come and go and one of the most common reasons when they may go besides perhaps a lack of business is an earned, poor reputation. The repairs that we do will be viewed in a context in time that does not include perhaps what we had to deal with, what was agreed upon with the client, etc. Instead folks will simply see results and judge you accordingly. Some years back on the OLF there was a thread about lousy repair work done by a Florida Luthier. What was never even considered was that we cannot know the context that the original repairs were done within. Was it a charity case with free work, did the client have very limited funds and agreed with the Luthier that they would only do part of the work? Who knows but this context will and was lost in time and instead the Luthier in Florida who worked on the thing now was being judged for repair work that again we cannot know what parameters may have restricted the Luthier to not do more or do better. This is why I believe that if the situation is such that you cannot do quality work - don't work on the instrument..... One of our favorite things to do when the economics are not there is explain this well to the client, feel their pain in the process, and encourage them to donate the thing to a good cause. In my experience this is rarely a surprise to customers, they know that what they have sucks already or they would not have sought you out.... There are lots of good causes out here including fixing them up in one's spare time and giving them to a homeless kid struggling to survive or searching for a reason why surviving matters.... That's what we do.

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