Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

12 string instead of 6
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44549		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mikemcnerney [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  12 string instead of 6
My #2 has been a year in the making & the neck is fitted, all is pore filled. I just have to make and fit the bridge, but I had a new idea. Is it too late to turn it in to a 12 string. It's M.D.Paynes Med. Jumbo.
What are the considerations? The top is pretty well braced as per the specs with a minimal of bracing material removed. The neck at the nut is 1.775" wide.
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Yes, I would say it is to late. The tension on a 12-string top is considerably more than a 6. Approximately 240lbs of pull vs 160-180lbs for a 6-string. Heavier bracing than a standard 6-string design is a must, and probably a larger bridge plate to accommodate the larger bridge (depending on your design). I'd keep this one as a 6 and if you want to do a 12 plan that for your next build.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Too late.
Author:  DennisK [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
I've heard that that plan is a bit over-braced, so it may very well be strong enough for 12, depending on the properties of the wood you used. But if it's all pore filled, doesn't that mean you've already cut the headstock to shape? Even if you haven't drilled the tuner holes yet, there's probably not enough room for 12. And the strings would be a tight fit at that nut width, so you might be better off making a new neck and saving the current one for your next 6 string. But then, you might as well save this body for your next 6 string too :lol: Unless you think it would perform better as a 12 due to the stiffness.

The bridge plate shouldn't be a problem if you use a 6 hole bridge, where two strings go in each hole. I like that style better anyway because it's lighter weight. Here's one by Trevor Gore http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=584614#p584614
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
If you stayed close to the bracing plan, it would likely be over braced. If it couldn't handle 12 strings, maybe a 9 string? Three single bass strings, a doubled trebles. I saw a couple of Yairi's on ebay a few years back.

Alex
Author:  Tom West [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
In my mind that plan is way over braced for 6 strings. As to if your guitar can be strung with 12 strings...........you'll have to make that decision. You know the stiffness of the top and you know the state of your braces. Since it's only your second guitar I'm sure you must find it hard to make that judgement. So what is it worth to you if it bombs.........? But on the other hand you may find that your guitar as a 12stringer is stellar....? Another neck could be made if needed. Good luck, let us know your decision and the outcome.
Tom
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
DennisK wrote:
The bridge plate shouldn't be a problem if you use a 6 hole bridge, where two strings go in each hole. I like that style better anyway because it's lighter weight. Here's one by Trevor Gore viewtopic.php?p=584614#p584614

That's a falcate one by Wes Lewis (nice one, Wes!). Here's one of mine (if it's of interest), lattice bracing but a standard bridge...(scroll down the page).

Many factory 12 string guitars are exactly the same bodies as the 6 strings, because the 6's are so over-braced.
Author:  mikemcnerney [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Yah, I forgot about the peg head. Like I said it's been a year & I'm not thinking too straight.
I 'll look tomorrow in the morning lite & see what would be involved in cutting the HS off & shaping the new one including the volute, I don't think so.
But now you guys have me all worried about the bracing for the 6 string. Let me hijack my own thread & ask;
what does a guitar with heavy bracing sound like? Should & how can I make adjustments now?
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
mikemcnerney wrote:
...what does a guitar with heavy bracing sound like?

Like a factory guitar :mrgreen:

...about half the volume and responsiveness of a well designed guitar.
Author:  maxin [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Quote:
Many factory 12 string guitars are exactly the same bodies as the 6 strings, because the 6's are so over-braced.


Really? Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Santa Cruz, Laravee, Alvarez, Yamaha ? Which models? Or are you talking about "Joe's Asian" plywood models?
Author:  Greg Maxwell [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
maxin wrote:
Quote:
Many factory 12 string guitars are exactly the same bodies as the 6 strings, because the 6's are so over-braced.


Really? Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Santa Cruz, Laravee, Alvarez, Yamaha ? Which models? Or are you talking about "Joe's Asian" plywood models?


Taylors for sure, and most others. Play a voiced and tuned handmade acoustic with a thin top and proper bracing side by side with just about any factory guitar and the difference in clarity, volume, high end sparkle, and balance is immediately evident.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Greg Maxwell wrote:
maxin wrote:
Quote:
Many factory 12 string guitars are exactly the same bodies as the 6 strings, because the 6's are so over-braced.


Really? Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Santa Cruz, Laravee, Alvarez, Yamaha ? Which models? Or are you talking about "Joe's Asian" plywood models?


Taylors for sure, and most others. Play a voiced and tuned handmade acoustic with a thin top and proper bracing side by side with just about any factory guitar and the difference in clarity, volume, high end sparkle, and balance is immediately evident.


And, if you're a player, pretty stunning the first time you get the chance to play a properly voiced and tuned handmade acoustic [:Y:]
Author:  maxin [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Quote:
Greg Maxwell wrote:
maxin wrote:
Quote:
Many factory 12 string guitars are exactly the same bodies as the 6 strings, because the 6's are so over-braced.


Really? Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Santa Cruz, Laravee, Alvarez, Yamaha ? Which models? Or are you talking about "Joe's Asian" plywood models?


Taylors for sure, and most others. Play a voiced and tuned handmade acoustic with a thin top and proper bracing side by side with just about any factory guitar and the difference in clarity, volume, high end sparkle, and balance is immediately evident.


I think we are talking about "bracing patterns" not the subjective issue sound quality --- Taylor 12 string models "for sure" have different and more robust bracing than their 6 string models.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Mike,

You should get at least volume1 of the Gore/Gilet books. Worth it's weight in wood.
Author:  weslewis [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 12 string instead of 6
Give it a try, you will need a new neck, with 12 tuners and I used a 1 7/8 inch nut!!!, I made the bridge slighty larger. so far nothing has Imploded!!!! [:Y:] [:Y:] pizza , Thanks Trevor!!
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/