Nice wood Doug. Is that faux "The Tree"?
That's going to be a great looking guitar. Where did you get the back and sides?
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| I think pore-filling is my favourite step http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44234 |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Watch the quilt on this Sapele parlour guitar stand up and say hello using West System Epoxy. http://youtu.be/TdLpeob302o |
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| Author: | uvh sam [ Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
How many coats do you do? |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
3 coats and then sanding in between with 220 RO sander. The first coat just gets soaked up and seals the wood. The next two levels and fills the pores. |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Ummm, yeah, that's gorgeous. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Beautiful wood, for sure. Pore filling isn't my favorite step but I'm not using epoxy. Looks like the epoxy goes on easy. How hard is it to hand sand assuming you do a good job of removing the excess? |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
That sure does pop the figure, gorgeous! |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
J De Rocher wrote: Beautiful wood, for sure. Pore filling isn't my favorite step but I'm not using epoxy. Looks like the epoxy goes on easy. How hard is it to hand sand assuming you do a good job of removing the excess? If one is careful to remove the excess the sanding goes quite quickly. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Doug: Wonder if you have also used Zpoxy and if you have, could you comment on any pluses and minuses? Beautiful looking guitar by the way. Tom |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Tom West wrote: Doug: Wonder if you have also used Zpoxy and if you have, could you comment on any pluses and minuses? Beautiful looking guitar by the way. Tom Thanks Tom. I have tried no other products so I am not in a position to offer comparisons. However I picked up the idea and method from the venerable Todd Stock who used zpoxy. I believe you can still find his video of this on youtube. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
You sure wouldn't like the way I do it... |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Doug: I've used Zpoxy and also seen Todd video. Your epoxy seemed a bit thinner and seemed to flow very easily. Do you thin or heat before applying? Tom |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Doug, You've obviously got your application process mastered and I don't think anyone can argue with your results on that guitar. I've never used epoxy as a filler. I've read about it countless times but have always shied away from it for one reason or another. You make it look very easy. Thanks for posting your video. Patrick |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Tom West wrote: Doug: I've used Zpoxy and also seen Todd video. Your epoxy seemed a bit thinner and seemed to flow very easily. Do you thin or heat before applying? Tom I neither heat or thin. West System 105/207 comes quite thin as it is made for fiberglassing boats, etc.. It is my unqualified opinion that an epoxy seal/pore-fill adds a layer of depth and enhancement of wood figure that some other methods cannot achieve to the same degree. |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
I have built 4 now and am not a fan of a mirror finish. I don't fill completely and prefer the look of some open grain. Over last weekend I was in my daughter's shop in Brooklyn and she had a Fraulini 12 string in for a minor issue and I got to see what Todd Cambio does first hand. He uses varnish sprayed and does what appears to be no grain filling. The guitar has a nice amount of gloss, but is no where near shiny, and the open grain was very obvious. Not sure what wood it was as it was stained dark with a mild sunburst on the back, but from the inside looked like it might have been a mahogany. I see my future. Ed Minch |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Nice wood Doug. Is that faux "The Tree"? That's going to be a great looking guitar. Where did you get the back and sides?
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Pore filling is by far my least favorite step, but a necessary evil if one wants to sell a guitar in this day and age. Epoxy does a great job of popping the figure and 'wetting' the wood for sure. Tom West wrote: Doug: Wonder if you have also used Zpoxy and if you have, could you comment on any pluses and minuses? Beautiful looking guitar by the way. Tom I've used both. Zpoxy's mix ratio is definitely more forgiving and it seems to sand easier, but that may be at least in part due to my process being a lot cleaner than it was back when I used to use West System. Another difference, though subtle, is a slight amber color that Zpoxy adds where West System is clear. Both work well when used properly. Note that there are different formulations of Zpoxy... you want to make sure to use the Finishing resin. |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
DannyV wrote: Nice wood Doug. Is that faux "The Tree"? That's going to be a great looking guitar. Where did you get the back and sides?I bought it from Mike Rosendahl through the OLF Classifieds (worth subscribing to). He bought it from RC Tonewoods. |
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| Author: | Casey Cochran [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
I used Z-poxy on my first few guitars and though they were slick when freshly buffed, they all have visible pores as the epoxy has shrunk. Has anyone else encountered this? I used Cardinal paste filler on one and it was user friendly and stable but I'm not fond of the look. On my latest build I pore filled with shellac. It was quite labor intensive (must have taken 15-20 wiped on coats) but it made a rather pedestrian set of EIR really pop. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Casey Cochran wrote: I used Z-poxy on my first few guitars and though they were slick when freshly buffed, they all have visible pores as the epoxy has shrunk. Has anyone else encountered this? Yes. Tried two different lots of Zpoxy with same disappointing results within 6 months. Switched to West System with no change in application technique and problem disappeared. |
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| Author: | Casey Cochran [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Thanks, Tim. Good to know. |
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| Author: | Glen H [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Casey, you are stating what I seldom see stated, on any forum. There is no perfect, shrink proof filler product or technique. I've tried most all I have read about, including three types of epoxy, CA glue, waterborne, and traditional paste. Haven't tried eggs or drywall compound. I have to some degree or another seen pores later, from 6 months to a year later and in varying degrees (sometimes just in one area sometimes all over). It also depends on how thick my final finish is (I use nitro). It is odd that you have then on all guitars you have built. Try another coat of epoxy next time and don't sand back to wood if you are doing that. See how that works. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Casey Cochran wrote: I used Z-poxy on my first few guitars and though they were slick when freshly buffed, they all have visible pores as the epoxy has shrunk. Has anyone else encountered this? I used Cardinal paste filler on one and it was user friendly and stable but I'm not fond of the look. On my latest build I pore filled with shellac. It was quite labor intensive (must have taken 15-20 wiped on coats) but it made a rather pedestrian set of EIR really pop. Casey, do you sand between those 15-20 coats of shellac? What cut of shellac are you using? Thanks, Wendy |
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| Author: | Casey Cochran [ Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Wendy, there were probably three sanding sessions with 320 dry before the pores were filled. I didn't measure the cut, but on the recommendation of a friend I put the flakes (super blonde) in a jar and covered them with twice as much alcohol. A thinner first coat helps seal the grain. 
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| Author: | Casey Cochran [ Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
Not that it makes much difference, but I'm using blonde dewaxed flakes from shellac shack, not super blonde. I also used less alcohol as the process went along. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I think pore-filling is my favourite step |
That must be seriously heavy shellac to fill pores in a few sessions. It used to take me the best part of two weeks and that was with leaving the shellac sanding dust filling the pores. |
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