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How far off can intonation be?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43979		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WindyCityBluesBox [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  How far off can intonation be?
I'm usually a stickler to get my instruments setup as perfectly as possible. I have this nice little Seagull guitar, but the B string is 5 cents sharp while the A and D strings are 10 cents flat. I don't HEAR any problems jumping out at me too badly (I notice minor problems here and there, but it doesn't bother me much considering the fact that its only a $400 beater guitar). Im wondering how far off you guys will typically let your intonation go. I COULD fix the intonation, but I REALLY dont feel like it laughing6-hehe What tolerance do you guys try to hit with your intonation?
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
If I was playing all below the 12th fret I wouldn't worry about it.
Above the 12th fret I would get cranky and fix it.
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
My research suggests that the human ear has difficulty detecting any fault in intonation within 2-3 cents or less within the acoustic range of a guitar. This concept is referred to as JND, aka "Just Noticeable Difference."

http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/acoustics/pitch.htm
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
WindyCityBluesBox wrote:
I have this nice little Seagull guitar, but the B string is 5 cents sharp while the A and D strings are 10 cents flat.

I'd find that pretty painful.

In absolute terms, the error is not enormous. For example, an equal temperament third is 14 cents sharp of a Just temperament 3rd and many of us manage to live with that. BUT, if you play a 10th (octave third) across the 5th and 2nd string (pretty common and much of what the L/Mc song "Blackbird" is all about) you have the 14 cents of Equal temperament error and 15 cents of intonation error summing to close to 30 cents from Just. That's a long way!
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
A related question might be "How perfect can you get intonation?. That is what i'd like the answer to.
Author:  Frank Ford [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
You ARE testing this thing in standard tuning with NEW strings, I hope. . .
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
Are you talking about at the 12th fret?
Author:  timoM [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
Indeed. Flat and sharp where and compared to what. Tuner used?
Author:  Greg B [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
Frank Ford wrote:
You ARE testing this thing in standard tuning with NEW strings, I hope. . .


Yeah, old strings really screw up intonation.

2-3 cents is probably inaudible to some people, but not people that have been playing for a while (or were born with golden ears). I shoot for +/- 1 cent or better in new instruments, but for a Seagull, I guess that's a ethical and cost/benefit type decision.
Author:  WindyCityBluesBox [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
I do happen to be using old strings, didn't realize that would affect the intonation! I was planning on doing the setup with the old strings then changing them after I was done. Ill throw on a new set how she plays
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
That's my indicator that I use to tell me it's time to change strings - when the intonation starts getting wonky. I play quite a bit so it's usually every 3 to 4 weeks.
Author:  Lonnie J Barber [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How far off can intonation be?
Ran into a man in the pawn shop yesterday. Heard him playing a few licks went to check it out. We got to talking and his player is an F hole with a moveable bridge. Told me he always took it to a tech to string it because they could get the intonation right. Now this was an older man who could hit some pretty good licks. Told him how I set up my moveable bridges. Said he'd give it a try.
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