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Are 12 fretters unpopular?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43636		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  sdsollod [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Are 12 fretters unpopular?
Are 12 fretters unpopular for some reason? Looking in Guitar Center I found not a single one… Many people comment about how great they sound... that the bridge is in the sweet spot. Why don't you see more of them?
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
Everyone wants to play high notes, and it's easier with more frets clear of the body.
Author:  Haans [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I had an accomplished jazz player over once to try some of my 12 fret guitars and he was comfortable all the way up to the 17th fret (no cutaway). Many fingerpickers I know are just as comfortable on a 12 as a 14, and they play all over the scale. Many would sacrifice a fret or two for a fatter tone.
Moreover, Guitar Center is not where I would be looking for guitars. They probably wouldn't stock a 12 fret because it cuts out part of their consumer crowd. I would be surprised if they had anything besides dread-nots...
I also know folks that won't touch a 14 fret guitar.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I love 12 fretters too and really like the bridge placement as well.

When considering the market for anything demand drives what's available.... er..... that's how it usually works.

I want to say that since 12 fretters often, not always but traditionally have slot heads the manufacturing processes are a bit more complex adding cost and risk to manufacturers. But then again if folks were asking for them I doubt that this little bit of added complexity would be a concern that could not be addressed in MSRP.

Another charteristic of 12 fret guitars is a wider nut again not always but often in terms of the ones out there these days and in the past. It also may be that folks just can't get into the wider nut either.

Who knows, certainly not me, but I too would like to see more of them as well - good question!

+1 to what Hans said about GC - that place is evil..... ;)
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
GC has a warehouse that buys guitars from the manufacturers by the thousands and ships them off to the stores for inventory from there.
I doubt they would buy any 12 fretters since they aren't in any particular demand or even well known. Most consumers don't even know they exist.
Author:  sdsollod [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I know that Guitar Center is not the ideal place to find different kinds of guitars... But I generally don't see 12 fretters in "boutique" guitar shops either. Maybe they look old fashioned. On the other hand, you see 14 fret 000s that look kinda old fashioned... It seems even parlors are gaining interest lately and many of the parlors have slot heads, but they are 14 fret... Is it that the guitar heros aren't seen with 12 fretters?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I'd say that between 30-40% of my total self built output gas been 12 fretters..

No slot heads though. Not ever.
Author:  gregorio [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
John plays em.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=chLFi2cFxzo
Author:  guitarjtb [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I'm not sure what the market demand is, but I love them. I am currently putting the final touches on a new L-00 style, 12-fret, maple body, mahogany neck, and red spruce top. I know....maple is for pancakes or arch tops, but I like maple guitars, wide necks, small body guitars, 12-frets, and watermelon wine.

James
Author:  jack [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I'm interested in seeing your L-00 12 fret James... like you I love 12 fretters... please post pictures of your results...
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
A few classical and flamenco players are known to prefer 12 frets to the body. (and many classical guitars now go to 20 frets with no cutaway)
Author:  Jaybird840 [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I've never built a 14 fret acoustic.... I guess the people I run with get the vintage mojo of a 12.
Author:  Haans [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
Ninety-eight percent of my builds are 12 fret. Only have one 14 fret mold and don't build with it much. My 12 strings are all 12 fret.
Author:  timoM [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I've built 12, 13, and 14 fret acoustics and think there is a place for all of them. In all honesty if things were right in the world there would be mostly 12 fretters, the guitar is shorter and more balanced, they're easier to play, and it's certainly worked for many spanish guitars. I will also echo the disdain for GC, spent about 2 minutes in one once, that was enough.

I have to say the guitar in that Mayer clip has a striking resemblance to a Brentrup.

TIm
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
Not too many years ago it seemed like anything other than a 14 fret neck Dreadnought was unpopular. Recently people have become interested in smaller guitars, many of which are 12 fret neck designs. To me, the longer soundboard of the 12 fretter improves the sound of the smaller bodied guitars over that of the corresponding 14 fret models.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I have built 12 fret guitars as both traditional with slotted head stocks both with and without cutaways and my last one was a modern style with solid headstock, cutaway, sound port, and armrest bevel and it was not with me very long.

Image

Fred
Author:  arie [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
i've heard people comment at GC that:

-they look like toy guitars.
-they don't look right
-why does it cost so much?
-where did the frets go?

i go to the hollywood GC for used guitars and often they'll have something cool. if fact we saw a robbie o'brian a few weeks ago. (not a 12 fret though) they're around you just have to look. the people who know, know where to go looking. i don't really see it as an issue.
Author:  Dave Rickard [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I got to try a 12 fret one of these days..............Next build for sure
Author:  LarryH [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
LOVE 12 fretters - just sayin'.
Author:  James W B [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
Love Em. Built several.Even kept one or myself.
Author:  Haans [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I would bet that "consumers" that walk into GC don't even know what a 12 fretter is, let alone an 0 or some other designation like grand concert. They want those guitars with the long neck and "sack dress" look.
I think they are very popular with real guitar players...
Author:  timoM [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
"sack dress" a very apt description for a body shape I assure you I will never make.

Tim
Author:  Haans [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
My sentiments exactly, Tim, although I was sorely tempted for a moment to build one for my wife with ladder bracing!
Think I will make a Stella auditorium 6 instead...
Author:  George L [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I'm a big fan. However, even at high end shops I find their numbers limited. Which is a shame, as most players I know can't stop smiling once they start messing with a 12-fretter. There tends to be more there there.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are 12 fretters unpopular?
I'm working on a Stella right now... 12 fret to the body and ladder bracing...
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