| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Water stones http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43611 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | DannyV [ Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Water stones |
I just read a review of these http://www.lie-nielsen.com/blade-sharpe ... terstones/ waterstones and they sound like they might be good quality. Coming from Lie-Nielsen adds some credibility in my mind. I'm thinking it's time for an upgrade. I'm currently using a combination 1000/6000 from Lee Valley. It does a fair job but is pretty soft and it's a little on the small side. Have any of you used these Ohishi stone? If so how do you like them? Any thoughts on what grits would be a good start. I have a decent diamond stone for course sharpening. I find 1000/6000 to work fairly well for me but I'd like to hear from some of the sharpening experts to get your thoughts if you would. I'm leaning towards the 1000/8000. Thanks, Danny |
|
| Author: | Hesh [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Hi ya Danny bro! I saw your thread toward the bottom of the stack with nary a reply so...... thought that I would bump this one for you.  I use a course/extra course diamond stone and then go to our Norton 4000/8000 stones and get excellent results. Don't know but me thinks that the 1,000 may not be needed going from a course diamond to say a 4,000/8,000 stone(s). I have a Norton 1,000 but it was kind of retired after going to what I do now. |
|
| Author: | Toonces [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Danny, This is a pretty big topic -- feel free to give me a call (386.690-2567) and I can give you the rundown on the pros/cons of different sharpening methods -- I usually stay up pretty late. I use a combination of diamond stones for the bevel setting and water stones for sharpening and honing. Best Regards, Simon |
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Thanks Hesh. Do you know what grit the diamond stones you use are? I'm just wondering what you consider coarse. I think the one I use is 600/1200 so I guess there would be no need to go to a 1000 water stone. I see the Ohishi have a 3000/8000. That might be the one. Simon, It would be great to call and talk sharpening! That's a very kind offer. It can be a pretty big topic but I think that's mostly because of a few different ways to accomplish the same thing. I'm going into the last couple weeks of my real job which forces me to get up at 4AM, in bed by 8 kinda thing. I should be done in a couple weeks and maybe I could give you a call then. I'll shoot you a PM just to make sure you're around. I'd like to hear your approach. Thanks |
|
| Author: | Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
I use DMT stones, they work really well, and despite its high prices they last quite a while. |
|
| Author: | James Orr [ Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
I've used King, Norton, DMT, Shapton Glass Stones, and Chosera Pro. My favorites are the Chosera Pro, seconded by the Shapton Glass Stones. The Shapton's are great because they don't require soaking. A creature comfort. The Chosera's don't require it either, and provide outstanding feedback and very little wear. I'd been doing the DMT Course to Norton 1000 and 8000 as recommended by Todd many years ago. Now I just go 1000, 6000. If there's damage to the blade I'll re-shape with a course or extra course. 6000 is extremely sharp and a bit more durable than 8000. |
|
| Author: | uvh sam [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
I use dmt diamond stones because they are relatively maintenance free. @james, how much maintenance for the shaptons? |
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
James Orr wrote: I've used King, Norton, DMT, Shapton Glass Stones, and Chosera Pro. My favorites are the Chosera Pro, seconded by the Shapton Glass Stones. The Shapton's are great because they don't require soaking. A creature comfort. The Chosera's don't require it either, and provide outstanding feedback and very little wear. I'd been doing the DMT Course to Norton 1000 and 8000 as recommended by Todd many years ago. Now I just go 1000, 6000. If there's damage to the blade I'll re-shape with a course or extra course. 6000 is extremely sharp and a bit more durable than 8000. Thanks James. I looked into those. Chosera's a little pricy but sounds like an excellent stone. I put an order in for a 1000/8000 Ohishi. I like the fact that it is 3" wide and also doesn't require soaking. They were out of stock for a week or 2. Enough time to ponder a new rasp purchase from them. I'm a big believer in that if you're going to ship a package all that way one might as well make it worth while. |
|
| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
I'm sure it will be great. Heck, aside from the King (which was a good starter but too soft), all these stones have been absolutely fine. I got the Choseras partially because of the startdust in my eyes. They're what Bob Kramer uses and recommends, and I'm lucky enough to have three of his knives 
|
|
| Author: | mqbernardo [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
FWIW i have a shapton 1K, a 2K Chosera and the Naniwa Snowhite 8K (junpaku) - which predates the choseras, but is also a magnesia bonded ceramic stone. it has been called the poor-man´s chosera and it´s a very fine stone indeed. less than half the price of the 10 K Chosera - i think it´s a wonderful stone. they´re all fine stones. i´m curious about those ohishi stones? do you know if they are magnesia? are they soakers without being perma-soakers like the choseras? best, Miguel. |
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Here's what Lie-Nielson has to say about them Miguel. I don't know what the material is. Ohishi Waterstone We recommend using waterstones for your day to day sharpening and these Ohishi Waterstones are the best we've come across. They cut quickly but are dense and hard enough not to require soaking prior to use. A spritz of water is all you need to get to work. The 1,000 grit will establish your secondary bevel and the 10,000 grit yields a beautiful final polish. Grits available: 1,000 3,000 6,000 8,000 10,000 1,000/8,000 3,000/8,000 3,000/10,000 Dimensions are 8" long, 3" wide, and 1" thick. I did order one and I'll let you know how it is. It will no doubt be a big step up from what I'm useing. |
|
| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
As Toonces says, this is a pretty big topic, but you can get it done very effectively with a couple of relatively inexpensive stones and a honing guide. If one of my edge tools are in bad shape or chipped, I use a coarse DMT diamond stones to grind the bevel, and then go straight to my finest Norton water stone (8000?) for a tiny secondary bevel, done. Most times, I just touch up the secondary bevel on the Norton, which takes a few seconds. I haven't tried most of the stones mentioned in this thread, but in what way are they superior? |
|
| Author: | mqbernardo [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Arnt Rian wrote: I haven't tried most of the stones mentioned in this thread, but in what way are they superior? Hi Arnt! I´m not sure if they´re superior. The main thing about these more recent stones is that they were produced to cope with these much tougher recent alloys, i think. Anyway, I bet you can get a much better edge much more quickly on your Norton than me on a Chosera...As you´ve said, pretty broad topic, and i´m not certainly the one to give you a definitive reply. I guess it mostly boils down to the way you learn and get used to a particular set of stones and to what drawbacks you´re ok to live with. No perfect stone out there to my knowledge. Also, if you´re using a honing guide (like i am, most of the time) these differences might not be that critical. Maybe just a couple more of to and fro´s. That said, the thing i like about my current set up is that the mid-grit Shapton (they say 1K but they are a bit lower than most 1 K stones) is pretty hard (much harder than a king, norton or superstone), fast cutting and tends to stay flat for longer, and since it´s the stone that gets most of the work done taht´s a big plus. It also just needs a small spritz of water on top and doesn´t make much mess. The Chosera and the Snow white IME produce the most tactile feedback i´ve encountered in waterstones so far (which helps if i´m honing freehand) and they easily form a very fine slurry that makes them silky smooth, a real joy to use. Also importantly they don´t give me much stiction issues and they´re fast (much faster than the superstones i previously used). I also found that the snow white removed the burr much faster than the superstone. They do require a quick soak for optimum performance. Danny, thanks for the info. |
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Arnt Rian wrote: I haven't tried most of the stones mentioned in this thread, but in what way are they superior? The Ohishi's are larger than what I'm using right now. Also the stone I use now, this,http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=33009&cat=1,43072,67175,67177, the smaller one is very soft. It requires truing frequently and I have dug in a few times and left a gouge in the surface. That was mostly me being sloppy though. Off the topic, does anyone else use a bench grinder to remove nicks. It's very fast and leaves a hollow grind which I prefer because when you take it to the stone you need to remove very little material to get the edge. |
|
| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
My experience is similar to Danny's. As I mentioned above, what I like is that they're very fast cutting, don't require soaking, and provide very nice feedback, more so than the Norton's I had prior. This doesn't make the superior per se, but I do prefer them. A key factor is that this isn't pure utility for me. I enjoy the process as much as the use. To me it's like pulling the perfect shot of espresso as opposed to simply drinking it. Depends on what you're after. |
|
| Author: | jfmckenna [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
I'm using a serious of Norton stones now. They seem a bit soft but I'm able to get the edge I want with them. |
|
| Author: | John Killin [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
jfmckenna wrote: I'm using a serious of Norton stones now. They seem a bit soft but I'm able to get the edge I want with them. Which ones are you using for your setup? I currently have a Norton 1000/8000 and am planning on adding a 2000 and the 4000. Sharpening isn't my strong point. I can maintain a blade once I'm there, but starting from raw new tool\used tool to usable sharp has been a pain. I'd like to move away from sandpaper scary sharp and do everything on stones. |
|
| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
John Killin wrote: jfmckenna wrote: I'm using a serious of Norton stones now. They seem a bit soft but I'm able to get the edge I want with them. Which ones are you using for your setup? I currently have a Norton 1000/8000 and am planning on adding a 2000 and the 4000. Sharpening isn't my strong point. I can maintain a blade once I'm there, but starting from raw new tool\used tool to usable sharp has been a pain. I'd like to move away from sandpaper scary sharp and do everything on stones. I am using a 220/1000 and a 4000/8000. It's been working out well. IDK if I should get an intermediary stone in there but when I'm done I can shave the hair off my forearm so it's good enough for me
|
|
| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
John Killin wrote: jfmckenna wrote: Which ones are you using for your setup? I currently have a Norton 1000/8000 and am planning on adding a 2000 and the 4000. Sharpening isn't my strong point. I can maintain a blade once I'm there, but starting from raw new tool\used tool to usable sharp has been a pain. I'd like to move away from sandpaper scary sharp and do everything on stones. John, I have a Norton 4000 that's basically brand new I'd let you have for a song. I don't remember using it more than a time or two. PM me if you're interested. I'll say though, that your 1000 to 8000 Norton's should be adequate. I used the same setup for a few years. Are you using a guide of any sort? |
|
| Author: | Clinchriver [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Off the topic, does anyone else use a bench grinder to remove nicks. It's very fast and leaves a hollow grind which I prefer because when you take it to the stone you need to remove very little material to get the edge.[/quote] I bought a Tormek T-7 for quickly establishing your primary bevel and its great for that. But I've found the leather hone is the handiest thing I've ever used to really touch up your edge. BTW sounds like Hesh and I use basically the same stuff. I have the Norton 1000, 4000, & 8000 grit water stones and two DMT's a 600 (red) and 1200 (green) I use the 1200 DMT, 4000, & 8000 Norton and finish on the leather hone on the Tormek. I also recently bought the newish DMT 4000 & 8000 bench stones and they are not what I expect out of DMT. |
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
Clinchriver wrote: I bought a Tormek T-7 for quickly establishing your primary bevel and its great for that. Nice. I would like one. I'm currently using a watered down garage sale version without the leather. Back in the day we used a regular everyday bench grinder and a cup ow water to cool the tool as you went. The water grinder I use now has a reduction gear that makes it very sloooooooooow. I tend to use a felt wheel on the grinder for touch ups. Seems to work OK. |
|
| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
James Orr wrote: John Killin wrote: jfmckenna wrote: Which ones are you using for your setup? I currently have a Norton 1000/8000 and am planning on adding a 2000 and the 4000. Sharpening isn't my strong point. I can maintain a blade once I'm there, but starting from raw new tool\used tool to usable sharp has been a pain. I'd like to move away from sandpaper scary sharp and do everything on stones. John, I have a Norton 4000 that's basically brand new I'd let you have for a song. I don't remember using it more than a time or two. PM me if you're interested. I'll say though, that your 1000 to 8000 Norton's should be adequate. I used the same setup for a few years. Are you using a guide of any sort? Not sure who you are asking because the quotes looks screwed up from the forum but FWIW I just started using a guide and I think it's improved my sharpening. I have the Veritas something or other guide and I'll use it to get a good edge and then free hand sharpen several more times before going back to the guide to get everything zeroed out for another run. |
|
| Author: | John Killin [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Water stones |
James Orr wrote: John, I have a Norton 4000 that's basically brand new I'd let you have for a song. I don't remember using it more than a time or two. PM me if you're interested. I'll say though, that your 1000 to 8000 Norton's should be adequate. I used the same setup for a few years. Are you using a guide of any sort? James, PM sent. I have one of the older Veritas sharpening system guides that I've been using. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2084122/36879/Veritas-Sharpening-System.aspx?keyword=brandVeritas_and_adwords_labelsHand_Sharpening_Jigs&refcode=10INGOPB&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CLqF25OMm78CFfHm7AodalgAVw I've been improving with the sharpening and the guide certainly helps. One thing that I'm doing now more frequently that has helped is paying more attention to flattening my stones. That made a huge difference. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|