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Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43465		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Duhjoker [ Fri May 16, 2014 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
Hi guys. I'm sure this has been covered somewhere but I'm obviously typing in the wrong key words cause I can't find it. So....

I'm doing a double florentine cutaway Thinline acoustic type guitar and the other night I got everything cut nice and glued everything together and fell asleep before the glue dried. When I woke up and looked at the peaks of the cutaways and noticed a gap on each peak between 1 & 2 mm. This was also my first time trying to do the peaks right where they meet at the apex. Any way I'm using black limba wood as my side and back tone wood. What would be the best way to seal these gaps so they still look professional. Sorry no pic at this time it's still in the mold. Thanks!
Author:  ZekeM [ Fri May 16, 2014 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
If it were me I would extend your binding scheme down the peak. looks good and you dont have to worry about trying to fill gaps in a light colored wood, which is nearly always visible
Author:  DennisK [ Fri May 16, 2014 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
If I'm understanding the situation, binding the tip should do it.

I've always wondered how people got the tip to mash firmly together in a mold, when it seems like the corner block would be wedging the pieces apart. But now that I think about it, gluing the corner block to one of the side pieces (where you can get direct, non-angled clamping pressure), letting that dry, and then clamping with the other in the mold would probably do it. Hopefully someone with actual experience will chime in.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Fri May 16, 2014 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
If the gap isn't huge you might be able to burnish it with a steel rod, just like turning a hook on a scraper
Author:  Duhjoker [ Fri May 16, 2014 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
Binding is a good idea. Yea the whole cutaway part is rather annoying but worth it in the long run esp if you like playing those higher frets. I should have made a glue clamp but to get it right and still be able to make corner blocks required me to keep the whole thing in the mold and try to clamp it that way. I'll prolly devise a simpler way next time. But yea I pretty much knew before hand it's was gonna be hard to get perfect. The most difficult part for me was trying to cut the precise angles in order TO do it right and get it be right in the mold.

Dennis, don't mean to sound dumb but I didn't understand what your trying to say. Could you clarify or post some links? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks guys!
Author:  James Orr [ Sat May 17, 2014 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
DennisK wrote:
If I'm understanding the situation, binding the tip should do it.

I've always wondered how people got the tip to mash firmly together in a mold, when it seems like the corner block would be wedging the pieces apart. But now that I think about it, gluing the corner block to one of the side pieces (where you can get direct, non-angled clamping pressure), letting that dry, and then clamping with the other in the mold would probably do it. Hopefully someone with actual experience will chime in.


[uncle] No first hand experience, but Rod put together a great tutorial on it: Tutorial - Seamless florentine joint
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Sat May 17, 2014 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
DennisK wrote:
If I'm understanding the situation, binding the tip should do it.

I've always wondered how people got the tip to mash firmly together in a mold, when it seems like the corner block would be wedging the pieces apart. But now that I think about it, gluing the corner block to one of the side pieces (where you can get direct, non-angled clamping pressure), letting that dry, and then clamping with the other in the mold would probably do it. Hopefully someone with actual experience will chime in.


Here's what I do. This cutaway isn't as pointy as some but it's one that I had pics of my process for building it. First I find the total angle and then divide that in half to get what the angle of each piece will be. (Actually I just eyeball it and guess.) Then I cut the angle on both pieces trying to remove as little wood as possible so the grain lines up when I'm done. It's good to have a small shooting board for this. Then I glue the block to one side of the pieces. The block has some flat spots so I can clamp it easily.
Attachment:
IMG_1949.jpg

Then I fit and clamp the other side piece to the block.
Attachment:
IMG_1957.jpg

When I'm done I carve the block to the shape I want to remove excess wood. I do the cutaway before I glue the side to the end block and the head block.
Attachment:
IMG_2290.jpg
Author:  mkellyvrod [ Sat May 17, 2014 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
Not to deviate from the thread, but Ken, just have to comment on your guitar; it's really stricking. The pink ivory is outstanding. Enjoyed your website also, and the sound recordings by Jamie.
Author:  ZekeM [ Sat May 17, 2014 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
^^i concur
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Sun May 18, 2014 2:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
Thanks guys. It was a fun build.
Author:  Duhjoker [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
Ditto on all the above.

Ok here's what I got. I waited till I had the top glued to the sides and binding channeled before I decided what to do. As you can see and please don't mind the dried glue gobs, that one is almost perfect and the other real tiny. Should I use my saw to open the gaps a lil wider to install the binding strip. Also what about gluing a piece of Limba in each crack? Idk thought I would double check with you guys before proceeding.

Image

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Author:  Duhjoker [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
Oh and here is my bottom cutout. Got those right at least.
Image
Author:  James Orr [ Thu May 22, 2014 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
I don't have any cutaway experience, so I'm not going to give any suggestion, but I wanted to say...

That bottom cutaway looks like some mighty fine work, Jeremy [:Y:] [:Y:] [:Y:]
Author:  ZekeM [ Thu May 22, 2014 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
I've only bound the tip of one cutaway. When I did it I chiseled out binding channels down both sides of the tip and mitered the binding into the top and back binding. Kinda tedious work though. Maybe someone will have an easier method. If I did another one I would probably plane the tip flat, glue on an oversized block that matched then binding and then carve it into the shape of the tip.
Author:  Duhjoker [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sealing gaps in florentine cutaway?
I found this link too late but and it doesn't show the finished product but this is what I should have done.

http://inlayinnovations.com/guitars/a-s ... -2-monday/

I noticed that the black limba's grain easily blends well. So I prolly could have just grafted a small piece in and re shaped it. Oh well this is how we learn and I can always fix it later. Any way here's some pics of the finished product. The last pic shows the top joint.

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