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The overlooked art of stringing up?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43203		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  The overlooked art of stringing up?
I have no idea how many guitars I've strung up and never gave any thought to my technique which I have finally decided sucks. I've started adding extra winds before tightening. Like the look, but find the process is tedious. I even recall seeing discussions about "added mass". I'm curious about other's techniques. How do you tackle this rather common but important task?

Mike
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musicia ... ging2.html
This works for me.
Tom
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
I've never found the wraparound necessary. I just pull the string through the post, then pull it tight and make a hard 'kink' just over halfway to the next post, then pull back till the kink hits the post and tighten. For unwound strings, I double the length before the kink. Always making sure the wraps go downward towards the peghead.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
My friend Podium repairman Marty Reynolds (mnluthier.com) has a simple technique that I use. Make sure to bend the free end up before you start wrapping so it does not scratch the headstock, especially on a newly finished guitar. Basically the first wrap goes above the hole the rest below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi01Q7d9C1c
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
I have noticed some guitars with well wound posts. Looks good to me. I've always used the simple approach of pull and wind but I always end up with very little on the post. I was just wondering if others had a useful technique for estimating the set to give two or three windings without much trouble.

Mike
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
We have plans to do a video on stringing her up including other types of arrangements such as slot heads, ba*jos..., mandos, etc.

But until then it may surprise some of you that we simply wind the post starting under the string passing through the eyelet and subsequent winds passing downward beneath the eyelet.

If you examine your tuners closely modern tuners have tapered posts. The intent of the taper is to have the individual winds when tightened sinch up against the end of the string passing through the eyelet because the taper pushes the winds upward. It's a beautifully simple system and there is and was a method to the madness which when done correctly eliminates any need for fancy, smancy twists, knots, bluegrass this and that. Again this is for modern style tuner posts only.

We also use a drill with a string winder to speed things up since we replace more strings on a daily basis than I could even estimate correctly.

With likely tens thousands of guitars and other instruments strung this way we have yet to have one come loose. It's also way easier to get the old ones off too with this method.

There is eloquence in simplicity provided that it works as intended.

Lastly the number of winds is very much a function of the tension of the individual strings, more tension, more winds.

And really, really lastly the number of winds can at times correct other things such as design deficiencies with a case in point being Fender style headstocks. Very little break angle for some strings, hence string trees, etc. More winds on some of these strings results in the string leaving the post at a greater angle to the nut.
Author:  Haans [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
Terence Kennedy wrote:
My friend Podium repairman Marty Reynolds (mnluthier.com) has a simple technique that I use. Make sure to bend the free end up before you start wrapping so it does not scratch the headstock, especially on a newly finished guitar. Basically the first wrap goes above the hole the rest below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi01Q7d9C1c


The way I have always done it.
Author:  arie [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
everybody does it different. for me, basically like a winch. no knots, no overlapping, i also cut before i wind. herd the wraps toward the post nut. starting from treble e: it's 3,3, then 2,2, then 1.5, 1.5. for a .010 to .046 set on a paddle head. heavier sets will need a bit less on the bass side. slot head is a bit different as you have to align the wraps so you don't crowd the strings or hit the wood of the headstock. i also invert the wrap direction on the g and the d to position the strings more toward the center of the peghead. no art to it. it's really very easy.

imo. i don't like the shallow break angle on the low e shown in that video. i know that collings are tight for space, but it could be done better. fwiw, piano tuners tend to bring the piano up to pitch "so the instrument doesn't know it's being tuned". it's not a speedwinding contest -take your time.

i also like to bend the ball end a bit before dropping it into the bridge. it helps to clear the pin and to seat the ball against the bridge plate. take care of the details and the rest will fall into place.

then there's the stretching process..
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
It's hard to explain such a process but I will try. First of all I don't buy into the idea you have to keep string tension on the guitar while changing strings... enough said there. I remove them all so I can clean up the headstock and fretboard if necessary. Then I insert all six strings into the holes with pegs and start with the low-E. I take the string and run the length along the inside of the tuning peg, the side that faces the high-E peg. I then pull it real tight and start to wrap the string around the post in a counter clockwise manor making sure the first wrap is on the bottom closest to the peg head overlay and wrap up the post. After one and a half turns I then insert the string end through the post hole above all the wraps and out then pull really tight and kink it upwards to lock it in. Then I give it a few turns to tighten just a bit before moving on to the next string. For subsequent thinner strings I increase the wraps till the high-E which usually has about 4 or 5 wraps before diving into the hole.

I used to explore caves and the way you rig up rope to repel on rocks or tree's is called friction wrapping. You wrap the rope around the object at least 4 to 5 times and then tie it off to the hanging rope. After ten 200 pound guys repel and climb back out there is not any tension at all on the knot rather the friction of the wrapped rope takes all the weight.

So I like a lot of string wraps. I think it looks good and it also creates in some cases a necessary downward angle over the nut.

Any way is a good way in my opinion but if you tie strings in a knot the a pox on you!
Author:  david farmer [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
I have a standard method but it seems ,as Hesh mentioned, I'm frequently winding a certain way for some effect.
decrease/ increase break angle at the nut, stop slipping through an oversized string hole, eliminate string breakage at a sharp hole exit etc.
I think it's useful to have a bag of tricks to match the conditions.


What would really be useful is a string cutter that automatically bends or swages the end of the string as it's cut so no more bleeding. Ever!
You hear me Dan Erlewine? This seems like a Stew Mac cover tool if there ever was one!
anyone with me?

How about any special techniques for unstringing a costomers headstock rat's nest w/out getting skewered? gaah
Author:  arie [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
david farmer wrote:

How about any special techniques for unstringing a costomers headstock rat's nest w/out getting skewered? gaah


no point in trying to "un-string" a headstock mess politely. use fine wire cutters (lindstrom, etc..) and a shop towel. wear gloves if you really must. just get in there and start snipping. think about where the string bits will go finish wise. use the towel to control fly-aways.
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
If you want a few wraps on the post without too much button turning, you can wind the string onto the post before running it through the post.
It's how I do it most of the time.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
I put all the strings in at once at the bridge and put my hand inside to make sure the ball is seated properly at each pin, and capo the strings at the eighth fret, keeping them taut.
I put the string through the tuner, and bend the string about an inch past the post, and wind the strings with the bend at the post. No string slipping at the tuner, and no bridge pins launching across the room!

Alex
Author:  wbergman [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
On classicals, I tie the posts similar to the loops on the bridge. I have had nylon strings slip off the posts if the string is not pinned in some way--at least overlap the first winding.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
david farmer wrote:
I have a standard method but it seems ,as Hesh mentioned, I'm frequently winding a certain way for some effect.
decrease/ increase break angle at the nut, stop slipping through an oversized string hole, eliminate string breakage at a sharp hole exit etc.
I think it's useful to have a bag of tricks to match the conditions.


What would really be useful is a string cutter that automatically bends or swages the end of the string as it's cut so no more bleeding. Ever!
You hear me Dan Erlewine? This seems like a Stew Mac cover tool if there ever was one!
anyone with me?

How about any special techniques for unstringing a costomers headstock rat's nest w/out getting skewered? gaah


Roger that Dave on not wanting to get our hands all cut up from the string ends.... One of the first things that I do when working on a guitar is inspect how the strings are.... well...... put on..... Often the cut ends are sticking up and placing your hand on the headstock is a bit of bleeding waiting to happen.

When David does his "stringing" video you will see how we restring with hand drills, no stinkin manual winders for us.... :D , and how we hold our fingers which has the functions of guiding the windings, keeping tension on the string until it's snug, and if I remember using my thumb to push the excess string upward all at the same time so that the lashing string end does not tear me up. I often forget though.... gaah :D

As for the rats nests that many guitars seem to have.... I loosen the tension and then cut them off. I'm also not all that keen when folks use all manner of attempts at string locks when none of this is usually necessary... Let the tuner post work as intended and the strings will not slip!

Worked on a brand new Gibson etune SG today... Wait until you guys have to string one of these puppies up, you will likely hate Gibson every bit as much as I do as a result..... So what if the direction that the whole world turns a tuner to raise pitch is the reverse for Gibson.... :roll:
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
Well, I never thought about bending the string at the ball end. Good idea.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
Jeff Highland wrote:
If you want a few wraps on the post without too much button turning, you can wind the string onto the post before running it through the post.
It's how I do it most of the time.

Ah man you just said that so much more simply then I tried to. That's the way I do it too. Once I discovered that one there was no better way imo :)
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Well, I never thought about bending the string at the ball end. Good idea.


Actually, its at the tuner end that I bend the string, Mike. The inch between the bend and the tuner post is the amount of string that gets wound. I do give the ball end of the string a gentle bend as well to help it stay seated between the pin and the bridge plate, and then bend the string over the saddle.

Alex
Author:  woodrat [ Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
Taylor Guitars have a great Tutorial on their website that is downloadable as a PDF. I often print off a copy to give to customers...very helpful.
Author:  David Collins [ Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The overlooked art of stringing up?
There are as many ways to string a guitar as there are players, and a lot of folks view theirs as the "right" way. Many of them are just fine, some are not, some work well but are unnecessarily complicated.

As Hesh said, we are bit by bit logging footage of different methods, with hopes of breaking them down to the reasons one may be more appropriate than others for different applications. There are some fundamental mechanics to keep in mind, and lots of different demands and limitations to base your methods around once it is brought to the surface and made clear why various methods originated.

Angled solid pegheads, Fender pegheads, slotted pegheads, string trees, staggered tuners, nylon strings, tapered shafts, straight shafts, sleeved shafts, departure point from shaft, locking tuners, friction tuners, breakover angle, tie blocks, bridge pins, Bigsbys, locking bridges, etc. - each of these applications can benefit from slight or significant changes in approach. Of course you don't need to memorize a different system for each application. Rather, if the demands and limitations of each arrangement are brought to a cognitive level of awareness, it becomes simple to adapt techniques to best fit each situation at hand, rather than simply doing it a certain way because that's how you learned it.

This is actually a very interesting topic, one often taken for granted as simple, but has some underlying mechanics which go a bit deeper than most ever consciously consider. I'm sorry we don't have any specifics to post at the moment, but we are working on a presentation right now in hopes of taking this simple issue and briefly making it much more complicated, so that those interested can come out the other end with it even simpler (and more reliable) than before.
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