Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Install frets before carving neck?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=42050		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Spyder [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Install frets before carving neck?
I know the Cumpiano book says to do this, but it seems to me that with the frets installed, I run a pretty big risk of damaging my carving tools as I get the side edges to shape. I also know that many of the procedures are in a certain order, without really stating why.

It makes more sense to me to get the fret marker dots installed, the fret board radiused, the slots to proper depth, then finish carving the neck. But I don't want to shortcut a step I may not even realize I am missing.

I am making a steel string, so the neck is off the guitar. Any insight much appreciated!
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
You'll find everything from fretting the unattached fretboard to fretting a guitar with finish on it. They all have pluses and minuses. Currently, I like to fret after the neck is shaped. That way if there's any movement as I remove a lot of wood from the neck, I can reflatten the fretboard. Haven't had an issue yet, so I may have to reevaluate.

I slot a flat board. It's more stable. I also do fret markers after radiusing so I'm less likely to sand through.
Author:  DennisK [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
Yep, you can pretty much fret whenever you like, and there will be various advantages/disadvantages.

My preference is to attach the neck, glue the fingerboard, level/radius the fingerboard, finalize neck carve (because I can feel the full thickness at this point), and then hammer frets in. I have done additional carving with frets in, but you do have to be careful. I wouldn't do it in that order on purpose.
Author:  bluescreek [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
I look a building a guitar as a 2 stage process. The box will make the sound , the neck will make it playable. I changed my methodology on necks and now do the neck last . Once I have the neck pre set , and fitted but not glued to the guitar I then true the fretboard plane. I want this a true as I can get it. I use a machined piece of plywood and sand the neck and the top of the guitar.
I also want to note that I prep the rim of the guitar with the neck angle in mind. Now that the neck and body are mated I can set the board on the neck. I place 2 registry pins under a fret slot . Now I can prep the fret board so this is also true to the body. I do a lot of compression necks so I will often fret the guitar on the body.
The more you address the details and prep for the frets the better the guitar can be set up and the better it will feel and play. Also with ebony I will damped the fret side just before gluing the fretboard on. I also clamp my fretboard on the neck on my granite surface plate. I have seen necks that are just clamped together move. Using a cawl to help keep the neck true is very important. I prefer to fret on the guitar as once the neck is set you can true the fret board on the guitar then fret. You will see an improvement in your building. It will make for a much easier guitar to set up.
Author:  Goodin [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
Don't worry about damaging your carving tools. You shouldn't be shaping the fretboard at all after it's glued to the neck. You will just carve the neck right up to where it meets with the edge of the fretboard, then sand it flush.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
I agree with goodin. You should not be shaping the fret board once it is glued. It should already be tapered so you are only bringing the neck wood flush to the edge of the FB.
Author:  SKBarbour [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
Maybe the concern was working the radius of the neck into the fret board? If so this is something that would be better done by sanding, so still no risk of damaging tools. Again, the best method is the one that works for you.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
I always carve the neck before the final leveling, side marker dot installation, and fretting in that order. Theory is that shaping the neck can stress relieve things and leveling and fretting is theoretically best done last. I bevel the neck curve into the fretboard so I like to do the marker dots after everything is in it's final form. Many other ways that work very well for those that use them, this is just my approach.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
I like to press in my frets... Since the ones over the heel (and the fb extension to some extent) are difficult on a carved neck I just go ahead and fret it before gluing it onto the neck blank. I do worry that I might get a neck with some tension wood that will leave me with a final product that's not true, but so far (60+ builds) it hasn't happened yet. *knocks on wood*
Author:  Spyder [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
I don't need to do any carving on the fret board, but I've already made so many mistakes on this project that I am starting to see where they may show up. And for me, it looks all too likely that on my first neck, my hand will slip and I'll snag a nice tool edge on the end of a fret. I can fix the wood easy enough, but this is my first chance to use that fancy spoke shave I bought several years ago, and I'd hate to mess it up!

So thanks everyone for the good tips. Being new at this, I realize that many times I don't know why things are done in a certain order. Seeing the different approaches gives me a much better picture of what is going on, which helps me decide on how best to approach it based on methods I am comfortable with.
Author:  Joe Sallis [ Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
Spyder wrote:
I don't need to do any carving on the fret board, but I've already made so many mistakes on this project that I am starting to see where they may show up. And for me, it looks all too likely that on my first neck, my hand will slip and I'll snag a nice tool edge on the end of a fret. I can fix the wood easy enough, but this is my first chance to use that fancy spoke shave I bought several years ago, and I'd hate to mess it up!


I think if you file the frets back to the fretboard edge before carving you should be fine.
On my first 2 guitars I'm working on now (nearly finished, pics soon!) I clipped the tang of the frets at the end even though it's not a bound fret board. This stops any metal from sticking out of the fret slots at the side.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
I always blend the fretboard into the neck when carving, it's smoother.
Couple that with rolling the fretboard edge and it has a feel that can't be beat!
IMO of course.
Author:  Rob Flindall [ Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
Quote:
I always blend the fretboard into the neck when carving, it's smoother.
Couple that with rolling the fretboard edge and it has a feel that can't be beat!
IMO of course.


Couldn't agree more. You have a great opinion. [:Y:] lol
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
Joe Sallis wrote:
Spyder wrote:
I don't need to do any carving on the fret board, but I've already made so many mistakes on this project that I am starting to see where they may show up. And for me, it looks all too likely that on my first neck, my hand will slip and I'll snag a nice tool edge on the end of a fret. I can fix the wood easy enough, but this is my first chance to use that fancy spoke shave I bought several years ago, and I'd hate to mess it up!


I think if you file the frets back to the fretboard edge before carving you should be fine.
On my first 2 guitars I'm working on now (nearly finished, pics soon!) I clipped the tang of the frets at the end even though it's not a bound fret board. This stops any metal from sticking out of the fret slots at the side.


When I want that look I use a faux binding....
Author:  John Arnold [ Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
I like to fret before carving the neck....at least to the 11th or 12th fret. That way, the frets go in easier, whether I am hammering them with the neck placed on my anvil, or squeezing them in a vise. Good aged mahogany rarely moves after carving the neck, which is pre-bandsawn to within 1/8" of the final thickness.
As far as carving on the edge of the fretnboard, I use a scraper and sandpaper to taper the bottom edge (below the frets), and a coarse file and sandpaper to roll the top edge....frets and all. I do use a half round Surform and spokeshave on the barrel of the neck, but neither one comes in contact with the fretboard edge.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Install frets before carving neck?
Rob Flindall wrote:
Quote:
I always blend the fretboard into the neck when carving, it's smoother.
Couple that with rolling the fretboard edge and it has a feel that can't be beat!
IMO of course.


Couldn't agree more. You have a great opinion. [:Y:] lol


You too! :)
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/