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Tonewood preparation
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41928		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Cat doug [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Tonewood preparation
Hi all, I am new to this forum so apologies if this has already been discussed. I have recently acquired a trunk of spruce from a friend of mine who felled it a year or so ago. I'm well aware of the need to age and dry the wood but I was wondering if anyone might be able to point me in the right direction in terms of how to age and dry it, including when I should split it, wax it(?) and remove the bark, etc. Likewise, in terms of the suitable environments for drying. I plan on using it not just for classical guitar tops but also for archtops.

As far as what I planning on doing at the moment is to split it using an axe into eighths and then sawing down the middle to produce the wedges needed for archtops. If anyone else knows of a better way, I would be very interested to know your opinion.

Many thanks in advance for your help.
Doug
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
What species of spruce?
Author:  Cat doug [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
It's Engelmann spruce. I should add that whilst I have experience in making guitars, this is my first foray into sourcing the wood directly! Many thanks.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Get the bark off ASAP, that's most important. I don't cut my own tops, so I'll leave the cutting/splitting questions for people with experience.
Author:  Goodin [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
You should have sealed the end grain with some sort of wax as soon as it was first cut. I use Anchor Seal 2. This will prevent 80-90% of end grain checks (so the can states). Probably would be a good idea to seal the end grain as soon as you can anyways. It probably still has some drying out to do, depending on how big the log is. Figure on 1 year of dry time per inch of thickness. So smaller cuts will dry faster obviously. A fan will help dry time. I will let more experienced spruce cutters chime in on how best to fillet the wood further.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Cat;
has the wood been laying on the ground all this time?
Mike
Author:  Corky Long [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
First, caveat is that my experience is simply from having done the same with a spruce that came down here during a storm. I think Shane Neifer (sponsor and tonewood purveyor) posted some time ago a tutorial on preparing tops from lumber that is fascinating to watch. You might find it in the archives.

I've fooled around with some spruce here in the east in the hopes of cutting some tops for fun. There's a huge difference between tops that might come from a tree here in my neighborhood and the high grade tops that professionals who know which trees to fell, and how to prepare them. If you're doing it for fun, because you're a do it yourself kind of person (which was my intention) then have at it. If you're hoping to make some money out of it, you're likely going to be disappointed.

If the tree was on the ground for a year then the color of the bark has almost certainly leached into the grain of the spruce, and my understanding is that a fungus also quickly can take over, discoloring the wood.

As Mike said, get the bark off the logs. When you split them (an axe won't do it - you'll need some heavy wedges and a sledge hammer), you'll find out if the tree grew straight or in a spiral (apparently very common, which will produce runout in the final product).

And, as has been said, seal the ends, to prevent any more checking.

Depending on how large the diameter is, you might not want to split it in eighths. You'll want it quartersawn eventually, and splitting it too much wont leave you much to work with.

How tight is the grain?

How about some pictures?
Author:  the Padma [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Since it came down a year ago, ( because them checks are working their way in daily....buck it up into rounds and split it ASP as in NOW. Wax immediately.

If that log ain't cracked down one side by now , then take a chainsaw cut (or skill type saw cut) down the side that is closest to the center of the stick. This will relieve any tension in the Log. If it ain't by now, when it does it might just spiral on you, but most trunks be a twisted anyways.

So Debark NOW!
Buck up into rounds NOW.
Seal the rounds NOW.
Frowing the rounds into billets now is also a good idea. But ain't all that important...although it helps with drying, which is 1 inch per year for air drying.

Resaw them billets when you get around to it.

ME have seen way too may sticks crack open and check because of being left on the ground for just a few months. For dimensional lumber...it don't matter all that much but for loofers...well you'll learn when you start doing your own break out and find this beautiful clear, tight grain wood ruined with checks because you dragged your ask me no more questions. bliss

thus spake
duh Padma
Author:  Cat doug [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Wow, what a great forum. Thank you all very much for your advice. After reading the replies, I went back to talk to my friend about the wood again and he told me that it was felled approx 2 months ago (I estimated a year as I wasn't sure and didn't realise how important the duration was). So I suppose that's good news, no?

I will take it and split it this weekend, and will post pictures ASAP. Thanks very much again.
Doug
Author:  Cat doug [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Oh, and it's been sat on top of other trunks, not on the floor.
Thanks
Doug
Author:  the Padma [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
2 months eh...well then if your want 2ft lengths, cut your first and last round 30 inches long...safety for checks.

Every thing else is the same...

NOW, as in right NOW, not tomorrow or next week...NOW,

Unless of course your after fire wood. Then it don't matter unless of course its the middle of winter and you just ran out of fire wood...well then you'll really get to appreciate the NOW concept even more. laughing6-hehe
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Doug, the best way to process spruce into flattop sets is to split the billets and saw them into tops (I saw them to .200") right away. Once they are off the saw, I mean the very same day, sticker them and get a fan blowing air across them to remove the surface moisture or they will mold. There is no need to seal the ends on these thin sets. I also label them with triangles and numbers to be sure that the remain paired. They will be dry in about a week but I usually have a fan on them for a good 10 days, just to be sure. For archtops I process as slabs rather than wedges, less recovery I suppose but I think that they dry better (more uniformly...just conjecture with no proof) that way. I do seal these ends with anchor seal and sticker them. I get a bit of air going across until the surface is dry (otherwise they will mold) and then just put them on a self in a heated area and leave them for a few months.

Hope this helps
Shane
Author:  Goodin [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
I'm curious...wood milling experts...is it important to take the bark off immediately from hard woods? I just got some black locust I cut up into 4ths (still big chunks though) and they still have the bark on. The tree was cut down about 10 days ago. My apologies to the original poster for slightly side tracking this thread.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
It is always best to remove bark. Bugs like the environment right under the bark. If the boards are in a dry place and off the ground it is not so much of a deal but I do tend to try and remove it during processing.

Shane
Author:  John Arnold [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Words to live by with spruce, or any other conifers:
Bark= bore holes...and subsequent blue staining.

One caveat. If you do remove the bark, you need to seal the wood underneath to avoid cracking. Either that, or go ahead and resaw the wood to a thickness of less than 2".

I do agree with Shane....the sooner you can cut it into tops and get it dry, the better.

The notion of drying the wood for years in big chunks may be romantic, but the cracks and blue stain will reduce the yield substantially....if not ruin it altogether.

Quote:
I just got some black locust I cut up into 4ths (still big chunks though) and they still have the bark on. The tree was cut down about 10 days ago.

Leaving the bark on black locust is not a cardinal sin, because the sapwood is very thin, and the borers usually stop when they come to the heartwood.
The main boring insect issue I have had with locust is carpenter ants....they enter the bottom of the stump and bore in the heart of the tree while it is still alive. Nothing you can do about that.
Author:  Goodin [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tonewood preparation
Thanks John and Shane. Excellent advice.
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