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Build No. 2
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41911		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Build No. 2
So after completing my build for the Newbie challenge, I thought I had better get on with another, so over the last couple of months, I have been working on a mandolin that is going to be a Christmas present for my partners sister. I have been meaning to add some pictures for weeks, but now that she is complete, I thought I had better put a few up.

Spec
Back and sided - English Walnut
Soundboard - European Spruce
Fretboard - Laburnum
Bridge - Laburnum
Neck - Sycamore
Binding - Mahogany with black blue purfling

I was surprised with how quickly I managed to work through the build, and enjoyed it so much that I think I will be making another for myself very soon. I will put a full build up on my website, but this won't be until post Christmas so that it can be kept a secret.

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Author:  Goodin [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Nice work! I really like the rosette. What kind of finish did you use?
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Goodin

Thanks! I used Liberon finishing oil, wiped on then then knocked back to a more satin finish with fine wire wool. I have used the Liberon several times now, and its rather like tru oil but a lot cheaper here.
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Hey that's really cool. I have already started a bouzouki myself. How did you brace the top? Any pics of that?
Author:  Goodin [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
I used Liberon on my first five instruments. It worked well on everything but the rosewoods. How many coats did you use? Seems like I put down 8-10 coats.
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Doug, a Bouzouki is something else that I would like to have a go at in the future another one to add to the list.

Here is a shot of the bracing, its just a simple H brace,

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Goodin, I put down a similar number, around 12-15, lost count. I had already pore filled using an egg white slurry and then a couple of coats of blond shellac before the Liberon.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Beautiful ! Bracing looks a Little Beefy , but that could just be the camera . Camera does add weight lol . How does she sound ? Post a clip ? Post this in Mando Forum as well [:Y:]
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
The bracing is fairly thin, I followed the plans in the mandolin project book. She sounds pretty good, i cant play the mandolin at all, but am trying to pick up a few notes for a demo.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 4
Author:  Jaybird840 [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Nick, that is a beautiful instrument!!
Author:  Nick Royle [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Great job, Nick!


Goodin wrote:
I used Liberon on my first five instruments. It worked well on everything but the rosewoods. How many coats did you use? Seems like I put down 8-10 coats.



eek I was thinking of using liberon on my current build... rosewood back and sides! In what way did it not work well?
Author:  Quine [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Very nice mando!
Author:  Joe Sallis [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Another fine instrument, Nick. I hope you stay on the forum, it's going to be intersting how your style changes over the years. I should be posting pics of my first guitars soon.
Where did you get the laburnam from? Thats exactly what I need for my next build.
Author:  ntredwell [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Thanks for the comments. Im going to try and record a demo over the weekend, though it will only be a few chords etc. as I have never played the mando before. I'm expecting one very happy recipient come Christmas day.

Joe, I bought the laburnum on Ebay, Ill pm you the sellers id.
Author:  Goodin [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Nick Royle wrote:
Great job, Nick!


Goodin wrote:
I used Liberon on my first five instruments. It worked well on everything but the rosewoods. How many coats did you use? Seems like I put down 8-10 coats.



eek I was thinking of using liberon on my current build... rosewood back and sides! In what way did it not work well?



The oils in rosewoods seem to conflict with wiping varnishes and won't allow it to dry or adhere properly. I think much of my issues was my technique though and lack of extra prep work for the rosewoods (will explain below). I sanded the wood to 1200 grit which I think was too much. I think I would stop at 600 to allow more of an adhesion surface. I got lots of streaking on Indian rosewood as if the finish never wanted to stick. I think this was due to sanding too high of a grit, and maybe scorching from the hot pipe during bending (it only streaked on the sides, not the back), and I didn't wipe with Naptha before applying. Cocobolo didn't streak but it took many coats to build up a shine and many weeks or months before it dried...actually I'm not sure it ever completely cured.

If I ever do it again here would be my process: sand to 600 grit, wipe the rosewood down with Naptha thoroughly to remove natural oils, us a white rag and do as many wipe sessions as it takes until no more oils appear on a clean rag, or until your arm falls off, as soon as the Naptha dries apply the first coat of Liberon, let it sit until it almost starts to feel tacky then wipe off. If it gets tacky rub it down with a little bit of Naptha. Repeat application of Liberon until you get the sheen you desire. The finish will tack up faster the more coats you apply, so you have to work progressively quicker.

If the rosewood continues to give you problems wipe on a light coat of dewaxed shellac then lightly sand it back. That might help seal in the oils. Ive never tried this so I'm not sure how Liberon would build over top of it...should work ok though. If not, sand back to wood and think about it some more.
Author:  ntredwell [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
I laid down my coats of liberon over the top of a couple of coats of shellac and was fine, so cant see it being a problem over rosewood, though would recommend testing on an of cut if possible.
Author:  Goodin [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Good to hear Nick. Probably not necessary to do that on the woods for your build though...walnut finishes beautifully with Liberon alone. EDIT: actually might still be a good idea to wipe a thin coat of shellac on spruce. Spruce seems to soak up more of the wiping varnishes than hard woods.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Thanks Nick, and thanks, Gil, for such a comprehensive answer! I'll be sure to do some tests and follow your advice! I'd french polish it but it is for a child so that may be a bit delicate(?).

I didn't shellac the spruce before the liberon on my last guitar but I'll be sure to test both before I finish my current build!

Cheers,
Nick
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Here is a quick sound clip of the mando, just a couple of chords but gives an idea of the sound

http://www.tredwellinstruments.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/mando-demo-2.wav
Author:  Joe Sallis [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
It's got a clear crisp sound.
Looking again at the photos, do you think the kerfed linnings could have been thinner? Give more room for the top plate to vibrate. Only a question as I'm not sure.
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Yes I think they could have been smaller, definitely, they are the same size that I have used for my guitar build, and they did look a bit oversized compared to the size of the mando.

I think they are something that I will probably reduce in size slightly for the next mando I make. Though I am very new to all this so I can't really comment on whether it would make the top move more or not. Maybe others can shed further light on the subject
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Thanks Todd, already started No. 3 I really like the side purflings as well on No. 3 I'm definitely going to keep doing them

I will start a build thread soon, Its a small bodied guitar, English Walnut back and sides with red cedar soundboard there are a few pics on my website, but need to update that as well.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build No. 2
Well done, I'm looking at building one of those for myself at some point even though I have no clue how to play it.

A note on the Liberon over shellac. I've never used Leberon but if it is similar to to TruOil then it shouldn't be a problem as I've used TruOil over shellac several times.
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