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| BRW Adi or Sitka? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41737 |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | BRW Adi or Sitka? |
I have a BRW back and side set for a dreadnaught. A friend of mine said that I have to use an adi top on it... I have a nice 50 year old sitka top with some nice medullary (cross) figure. Should I hold out for adi or use the sitka top. just looking for various opinions... |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
I don't know..... Brazilian and Adi is such an untried and risky combination. Same thing with the Sitka... The answer of course is subjective, but you'll want to first examine what the instrument will be used for, and what type of sound the owner is looking for. That will help with the decision. |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
That's not really a reasonable comparison.  You need two pieces of wood, there's too much variation within a species to make a comparison. I'm sure the sitka top you have would be better than some adi, but not as good as other adi. Stiffness to weight ratio is the important number, and "average" adi is higher than "average" sitka, so the "average" answer is get the adi. The real answer is measure the weight and stiffness of your sitka, and if you find some lighter/stiffer adi, then get it. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
sdsollod wrote: .... A friend of mine said that I have to use an adi top on it... just looking for various opinions... Glad to hear you looking for various opinions...tell your friend that, and you can also tell him that you don't take orders. If your looking for stiffness to weight ratio you might wanna consider Lutz. Personally meed do the 50 yr. spruce ~ just cuz. 
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
In my opinion adi, lutz, or sitka would all make an outstanding guitar. How outstanding depends on many other factors such as the actual wood you end up using, how the guitar is designed and constructed, etc. etc. etc. In short, the Sitka you have sounds like an excellent starting place but then..... if this is you first build, but I'm guessing it's not, I'd wait until you have built two or three before I used the BRW |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
I'd be mercenary about it. You can upcharge for the adi. So if you're going to be charging through the nose for the braz, you may as well maximize its cache by using a good adi top. And lacing it with abalone and arm bevels and all that stuff. Not going to be too many braz sets in the future. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
You should hold out... for as long as it takes for you to evaluate the top wood that you have in hand and not need to ask others' opinions. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") For marketing purposes I guess the Adi would have the edge, just as BRW has the edge over EIR. But do you build guitars that are better sounding when you use those woods? |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
Ok...here goes dudes... Adi this adi that...is all a crock.  Thats right ... is a crock! Pure and simple. no bouts adout it.With the exception of sitka, once the bark is off of the stick, nobody can tell what it is. Even in a lab. Not only that... dig this dudes... the quality of wood varies from top to top from the bottom of the stick to the top of the stick, and on top of that it varies from consecutive slices off of the same round. Any luthier who logs and cuts there own timer will tell you that. Unfortunatly very few do any more. Well I do, and have been stretching stings on instruments for over 50 years. Bottom line. Take pile of adi, sitka, engelmann, red, black or white, European, sitka and lutz tops and ask any luthier to identify them. Guess what, they can't! ...its a crap shoot. Pure and simple...with the exception of the Lutz... it will be stiffest of them all. Don't believe me ... ask Shane, he is one of the only two Lutz suppliers on the planet and a member of this form...the other is Mario over at sprucetonewood.com They will tell you straight and have the lab numbers to back them up. Now the ?adma will concede the fact that different spruces tend...notice me said tend to have different tonal / sonic qualities...however in my not so humble~ized opinion...it ain't all that much difference considering all the variables involved in building these suckers and weather it was logged on a full moon in winter or a hotter in heck, high noon summer day....Ya right , give me a break! And so, and yet the B.s., the old wives trails and retired used car salesmen now hustling guitars in music stores still spew forth the party B.S., which ain't a much different form of the B.s. me first mentioned. B.S. is still B.s. So the real bottom line is ... log your own spruce...or really, and me do mean really trust your top supplier, cuz in me opinion the wholesalers don't give a flying fluff what you want, cuz the got it, buy the truck load, delivered fresh daily to the retailer of your choice....even the rarest of rarest Mongolian Spruce logged on a full moon night in the dead of winter in the Gobie dessert. Ya, they got that too. Buyer beware! Here in endith another one of me rants. Not bad for only 2.5 pints of me pumpkin brew. blessings  ?admaNote: this here post has been sanctioned by the Profit and is suitable for consumption by the sheepls of this planet. Amen. |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
Okay, this isn't my first guitar. I've completed 10. Not that that makes me an authority... As it turns out, a very generous luthier friend gave me the BRW. (nice friend, huh?) he was the one that got me started on building. It was actually a barter. I finished a style 5 for him. The B&S is a Martin set that he acquired. If it's a second I can't tell. The sides are already bent and it's a three piece back (D-35). He has encouraged me to go ahead and build with it. I've been waiting to get better. I thought I might get started... I have a nice Sitka top that that might be suitable. I actually have an adi top. It's an AA. I could use that or buy a nicer one... Maybe I should just put the BRW on the back burner for now. I can always use it in the future... |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
I've never built an acoustic. i build electrics, so take that for what it's worth. But, considering it sounds like the BRW is probably a pretty nice set, maybe older Martin stock, I'd definitely consider the 50 year old sitka. As a player Sitka is my favorite top wood. I've tried guitars with a lot of different top woods, but I keep going back to Sitka. And IMO, the older the wood the better, all else being equal. But there are much finer builders weighing in, that build acoustics, so take my advice for what you feel it might be worth. |
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| Author: | John Lewis [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
Steve- I've got a nice AAA Sitka top that I bought from Allied lutherie 12 or 15 years ago - every time I pull it out of the pile and play with it, the tones I get are more immediate and crystalline. I've got a stack of five floppy red spruce tops that still tap like cardboard after 8 years of seasoning. Like everyone else has said, just pick the one that speaks to you. Good luck but I bet this guitar will be a nice one. |
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| Author: | Spyder [ Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
the Padma wrote: Here in endith another one of me rants. Not bad for only 2.5 pints of me pumpkin brew. [/size] So Padman, just what spices are you using in that punkin' juice? 
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| Author: | nickinbruns [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
What kind of meat?
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
So are you building this to sell, to give away, or for yourself? You've decided that it's a dreadnought, (maybe because the back and sides are already cut to those specs?) I echo the comments about species being less relevant than the characteristics of the individual tops themselves. You and I are at similar points in our evolution in building (having built about 10 guitars, too.) I haven't yet been sufficiently confident to build with Braz... want to get my process down a bit more first. But regardless, I'd build with the best top I could for this guitar. Braz is so rare and expensive that I'd find the best possible top for the guitar that I wanted to build. If I were building a Dreadnought, I'd probably go "old school" and try to replicate a prewar Martin kind of sound. I think you'd be looking for a pretty dense and stiff top. I guess what I'm saying is that you might not want to build with either of the tops you've got. You haven't talked about their individual characteristics (stiffness - either by deflection or feel, density (weight or mass relative to volume - grams per cm3 or per cubic inch). You're building with the best back and sides you own. Why compromise in any way on the top? |
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| Author: | Frank Cousins [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
...again not wanting to cause any offence and all, but I have two sets of BRW - both like yourself aquired from a Pro Friend - who can simply no longer build with it as his classical builds now mostly go for Export to US or Japan etc... and although he has CITIES as do my sets - simply too much grief now.... anyway, I do the usual wierd stuff of getting it out , sniffing and staring and tapping at it in all its quartersawn and spidersweb bell like ringing beauty  ... then put it back again... and will do so until I have enough experience to know exactly what a first class top is (irrespective of wood type) that will work best with it - I have an idea, but well its going to be a few years and many more builds until I am ready for that.... and can be comfortable its being paired with a top that will do it jsutice and I can build to the required standard... as I simply wont be able to get anything like it again.I know its tough... at times when I am working in the shop, with 'other' woods - I can feel it staring at me 
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
These are all great comments. I think I've been convinced to hold on to this B&S set until I find the right top. It is a very nice set and there's no need to rush things. I have other sets in my stash... which gets bigger with time, you know how that is... BTW - I have not been selling my guitars as of yet. After 10 I'm just getting to feel more confident. I am in the school of John Mayes and Robbie O'Brien as far as evaluating tops. That is, I listen for the sheet metal sound... I do want to try deflection testing though... |
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| Author: | Frank Cousins [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
sdsollod wrote: These are all great comments. I think I've been convinced to hold on to this B&S set until I find the right top. It is a very nice set and there's no need to rush things. I have other sets in my stash... which gets bigger with time, you know how that is... BTW - I have not been selling my guitars as of yet. After 10 I'm just getting to feel more confident. I am in the school of John Mayes and Robbie O'Brien as far as evaluating tops. That is, I listen for the sheet metal sound... I do want to try deflection testing though... I must admit I would love to build with the stuff now- especially as I lucky enough to have sets that are lovely deep red and I just know will look stunning. It's just as the more I learn, the more I realize e there is to learn! And the scarceness of this resource and considerable cost means I would hate not to do it justice - so right now sticking with some other nice woods 
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
sdsollod wrote: These are all great comments. I think I've been convinced to hold on to this B&S set until I find the right top. It is a very nice set and there's no need to rush things. I have other sets in my stash... which gets bigger with time, you know how that is... BTW - I have not been selling my guitars as of yet. After 10 I'm just getting to feel more confident. I am in the school of John Mayes and Robbie O'Brien as far as evaluating tops. That is, I listen for the sheet metal sound... I do want to try deflection testing though... I think you're making the right decision. ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations")
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| Author: | the Padma [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: BRW Adi or Sitka? |
Spyder wrote: the Padma wrote: Here in endith another one of me rants. Not bad for only 2.5 pints of me pumpkin brew. [/size] So Padman, just what spices are you using in that punkin' juice? What? ?adma disclose him secret recipe.  Ok. Boil 2 row malt, crystal 80L malt, hops, 25 liters water, one can of pumpkin puree, crushed head off of one clove, a pinch of cinnamon and allspice, one cup of oats. Stir with wooden spruce paddle. (Preferably Mongolian spruce for that hint of barbarian flavour) Let cool, pitch in an ale yeast. Ferment 10 to 15 days in primary, longer if the oats ain't settled. If you don't like the creamed ale style leave the oats out. Age 15 ~ 20 days in secondary with medium toasted French oak chips. Bottle, prime with malt, let age for 6 to 8 weeks. Keep the spices down to the absolute bare minimum as they are far more stronger when brewed than when cooked for some reason unbeknownst to me. |
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