| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Osage Orange guitars. http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41726 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | ernie [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Osage Orange guitars. |
I finally sliced up some OO for backs an sides.Planning to do a ss build next year. For those who have built with it, What are your impressions of it. I/ve used it for FB and bridges.It seems to tear readily with a low angle block plane with the grain , and gums up quickly the 80 grit sandpaper on the sanding machine .I switched to 60 grit so it would not load up as badly.What techniques are you using to tame this native wood.Thanks. |
|
| Author: | Terry Burke [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Ernie, I built an OM with Osage It turned out to be a sweet sounding guitar but I didn't experience any of the issues that you have had. |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Thanks for the feedback.Good to know. The OO I/v used is local to the KC area an sawn for me by a local mill. Since you live abt 12-1300 mi away . Same species but different growing conditions, I think we get less rain here. Very nice gutar . Is that a chevron binding you custom made? , regards ernie |
|
| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
I haven't made anything with it, bu it sure has a cool name! It sounds like the wood you used may have had some runout causing the tearing, and the gumming may be due to the wood not being dry yet. I've run into that with buying wood from stores that utilize local sources and sawmills. |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Yup the bridge /FB stock was rift sawn , some 1/4 sawn too by a local fellow with a backyard sawmill, and yes it did tear readily, and gummed up 80 grit sandpaper on the thickness sander. I should wait awhile , as the wood changes colour with age.That might solve the tearing./gumming issue. Filippo, just a suggestion you might want to thin the OO to .075 an add lighter veneer laminates . e.g. a. cedar, walnut etc. to make the gtr lighter , so that the future player does not incur a herniated disc from schlepping around a hvy gtr. |
|
| Author: | Terry Burke [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Ernie, My Osage was bought off the internet, don't remember where it was from. Ironically the owner of the guitar lives in Mo. The purf on the back is just Rope that I probably got from LMI. Good Luck on your build......Regards.....T |
|
| Author: | Herr Dalbergia [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Have been resaawing some sets, here my observations so far: - it likes to crack along the grain - it moves quite a bit while drying - at the planer and thickness planer it beahves friendly, as well it does so at the bandsaw - it has a good tap tone, but when I compare it to BRW I do not hear this magic similarities OO is famous for, sorry.... some pics... https://picasaweb.google.com/1157931855 ... sageOrange |
|
| Author: | Phillip Patton [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
I've used lot's of osage, all of which I harvested and had a friend with a sawmill cut, while I supervised (he never quarters wood unless I ask him). I never plane it, because it does tear out easily. I use a thickness sander. It bends wonderfully. Better than anything else I've tried. I like it, although the color takes some getting used too. It does darken nicely over time, though. Some time I'm going to make a guitar with OO and paint it black. 
|
|
| Author: | ernie [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Guten tag herr dalbergia.May I ask , where did you buy$$ your OO from ? which usa state? I/m wondering .I listened to 2 different video youtubes of players who made dread gtrs using OO one was from NC. which sounded wunderbar to my ears and one from tenn.Which sounded ok , but nothing special. My large stash of OO , not much shrinkage, vy hard to rsaw, using a trimaster I bent 2 teeth on BS, tough to sand, an plane.Rings like a bell imho. Glad to hear your stories, as it sounds, pun intended, that not all OO is the same depending on where it is grown and how it is treated.I received 2 large boards from the mill yesterday. They were both sitting out in the open for 1yr in the elements. Vy little checking and shrinkage.on 5/4 boards. Just to make sure. I will use end sealer when sawing up the rough stock for future use. I think it splits readily which is why it was a preferred BOW wood for the local osage indian nation. Thanks for sharing abt OO phillip. |
|
| Author: | Herr Dalbergia [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Guten Tag Ernie, I bought my OO here in germany, north bavaria at a big world wide trading wood company. The only thing the salesman could tell me is that they got it from somewhere in the south USA...not much info...sorry....yes it rings like a bell, but I am always a bit confused when I hear it should replace BRW...for me there is still much differnece. I once played a guitar made out of OO, but not build by me. It was OK, not more to be honest. But of course it is quite unfair to claim the OO for this. I still remeber it had a very fine grained Engelman Spruce top and was quite overbraced...so ...not my kind of cake.... Cheers, Alex |
|
| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
The stuff I've tested is in the rosewood class for sure in terms of properties. So far the guitars I've made with it have pretty well fulfilled that promise. I've got a Classical at Guitar Gallery in Nashville now, and you can hear sound clips at their website. I'm a hand tool guy, and I have to say it planes as badly as Pernambuco. It resists splitting well once it's properly cured, but it sure chips. The grain tends to be more or less interlocked, too, which doesn't help. I don't have a thickness sander, and rely on the drill press planer, scraping and sanding. You get here, eventually... The fellow who bought my OO tenor uke last summer said it was the loudest and best sounding uke he's heard. |
|
| Author: | nyazzip [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
on a side note: osage orange grows in northern illinois also...we used to call them "brain trees" because the skin of the large green fruit resembled the spaghetti-like look of brains, or so we imagined....we'd have lots of fun throwing them around and at each other on the way to school on frosty autumn mornings. never worked with the wood, sure is a nice warm color |
|
| Author: | DennisK [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Terry Burke wrote: Ernie, My Osage was bought off the internet, don't remember where it was from. Ironically the owner of the guitar lives in Mo. The purf on the back is just Rope that I probably got from LMI. Good Luck on your build......Regards.....T I'm betting Buffalo Tonewood in TN, by the look of it. I have a set from them as well. Feels more smooth and solid than the Kansas City stuff. I haven't tried planing it, but I bet it will be less troublesome. I have built one with local KC osage, with similar experience to Ernie re: tearout. Seems to alternate between rock hard grain lines, and softer splintery wood between. I don't have a sander, but it didn't feel gummy at all. I was using a toothed blade in a cheap block plane, along and across the grain. Across seems to work better, but still pulls up big chunks at random times with very little effort, so I had to do most of the thinning by scraper. Sounds great to me. Not exactly like BRW, but definitely the closest thing we have in the states. And it does indeed bend very easily. As for the color, if you don't like yellow, leave it out in the sun for a few weeks/months. It darkens much more by UV exposure than by oxidation. It's also pretty translucent, so the darkening penetrates deeply, and probably could be done before building the guitar to avoid danger from drying out in the sun. Here's my test piece after sitting in a west facing window for a few months, compared with another offcut from the same back, and with a spot of shellac in the corner. Attachment: OsageTest.jpg
|
|
| Author: | ernie [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Allen hope you sell that OO CL guitar. I listened to the clip. One video was a carpathian spruce and OO dred and the other engl spruce an OO dred. I liked the sound of the carpathian much better. alex , check out that clip on youtube big difference IMHO. Carpathian Spruce can come from slovakia, ukraine , or romania. John preston supplies it and his prices are vy reasonable. I don/t think OO will ever replace BRW. When I started planing pernam it tears readily and I use a scraper type block plane or a block plane bedded at 20 deg with a 45 deg bevel angle on the blade. |
|
| Author: | dzsmith [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Cool info, it is plentiful around here. Folks used it for pier and beam foundations. My friend from Vietnam brought me some Osage Orange candy made from the fruit (or maybe the seeds). I spit it out immediately - tasted like concentrated bad breath. |
|
| Author: | bobgramann [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
I've made several Osage Orange guitars. I love the sound. Unlike EIR, you can strum a chord and let it ring and still hear each individual note in the chord. Aside from resawing it, the two biggest problems I have with it are jointing the back and cutting the binding ledges. The grain weaves and interlocks, so there's always a place where the plane catches when jointing. Sometimes, I've had to resort to gluing a piece of sandpaper to a perfectly flat beam to sand the joint surface to perfect. On those, I usually use a dark backstrip to hide any imperfections. The router will often catch and rip out a splinter when cutting the binding ledge. To counteract that, I start with the largest bearing in the set and work a bearing at a time to the final depth. I've tried scoring the line with a Gramil and didn't get any better results. The wood always has imperfections. I consider the problems and the imperfections part of the qualities of the wood and what you have to put up with to get the sound. I charge a bit more for an OO guitar to make up for the difficulty. Folks that hear it are willing to pay. It's a great tone wood. |
|
| Author: | klooker [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
It turns pretty well too. I gave this to a guitar teacher buddy of mine.   I have some sets in the que but haven't made a guitar with any yet. Kevin Looker |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Bob , don/t know if this helps . I bought a L/N blade with a secondary 40 deg microbevel for my L/N low angle jack which I use for shooting really hard woods ebony ,EIR, Haven/t tried it on OO. but it takes an uber thin shaving. As well I bought an old japanese plane off e-vil bay , and made a new OO jack plane bedded at 47 deg. works vy well. If I run into a contrary wood like OO I can carefully joint the edege on my delta 6by 48 sander .I swapped out the dead 3450 rpm 1.5 hp for an old crapsman .5hp 1725 rpm motor which runs way slower and makes a perfect edge in 30 sec, ready for glueing. My belts last way longer too. I haven/t routed edge binding on OO but I will take your suggestion on sneaking up on the final routed edge.Probably will skip the purfling and aim for a clean binding job.Appreciate the tip. I/m off woodworking , and on antibiotics /ibuprofen for the next 3 days till I get a root canal ouch. |
|
| Author: | mqbernardo [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Herr Dalbergia wrote: Guten Tag Ernie, I bought my OO here in germany, north bavaria at a big world wide trading wood company. The only thing the salesman could tell me is that they got it from somewhere in the south USA... Hi, do you think you could disclose the name of the vendor. I´m interested in some Osage. Or do they only sell logs? I´m waiting for a reply from Espen on the subject, but it´s taking some time. Thanks, Miguel. |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Miguel, dennis mentioned an e- bay supplier of OO in tenn. named buffalo tonewood, perhaps they ship overseas ?. I/ve also seen a turkish supplier on the net , but it was mulberry. forgot their name just google mulberry guitar B/S prices in euros. Same look as OO but not as hard./Also a similiar wood to OO called Fustic coming from argentina , but my spanish is not so good. |
|
| Author: | Herr Dalbergia [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Hello Miguel, they are only selling lumber, normaly also not sngle boards, but complete pallets. The last time I visited them they did not have anything more on stock, unfortunatelly.... Cheers, Alex |
|
| Author: | mqbernardo [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
ok, thanks Alex and Ernie. |
|
| Author: | bobgramann [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Mulberry and Fustic are both close relatives of Osage Orange. I have built with Fustic--it is very much the same as OO in both in sound and in machining. The major difference is that the grain is more regular. I haven't worked with Mulberry but will if I ever get the opportunity. If you have a source for either, you should jump on it. I can no longer get Fustic here in the US. |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
I get mulberry from my supplier, but it/s vy spotty.Thanks for the tip abt fustic bob , good to know.I was flattening the latest batch of OO prior to sawing/end coating and yup it does tear.So if I ever find a fustic supplier , will let folks know. |
|
| Author: | Leftyprs [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Osage Orange guitars. |
Here's my Osage guitar. Sounds great!!! 
|
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|