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| Interesting finish issue http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41711 |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Interesting finish issue |
I sprayed a coat of Cardinal's Luthierlac Sealer last Friday, then a second on Saturday. When I went to level it a few days ago, the second coat started flaking away in spots. Didn't scuff between coats, which is probably the issue. I emailed Mac, and I'll convey what he says, but thought I'd share the pic. This is my first time using Cardinal (through an Iwata LPH-300 with 1.2 tip). So far it's been more difficult to setup the gun than I'm used to. It doesn't look as wet and I'm having trouble seeing what I'm putting down. Bear in mind I'm a guitar a year hobbiest (not a pro or semi-pro), and my reps are considerably fewer. I'm just hoping I don't have to strip it and start from zero. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
Another sign that the new Cardinal products are either catalyzed or a closed polymer (alkyd). The back at least will need striped back and done over, those witness lines will never disappear. Moreover I would be concerned about long term viability of the coating, this is a recipe for a de-lamination failure down the road. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
Argh! Thanks for the thoughts, guys. Live and learn! |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
With the products I use, the cat versions of the vinyl sealer are single coat only products. That includes a low voc version which can be used either as a cat or non cat depending on the top coat chosen. No second coat required or permitted. The nitro version can be recoated at any time with no sanding. So this shows how different products from different manufactures can be. In fact my manufacturer discourages the use of vinyl under their nitro due to possible delamitation caused by the lack of burn on that Todd mentions. Again this is why it's important to work within one system from one manufacturer and to be familiar with how it operates. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
Good info for me since I am planning to try cardinal nitro on the next build. Love to hear cardinals response also. Keep it coming !!! |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
Alright guys, I did the dirty deed. It's stripped and cleaned. The fill is still fine, but I wiped a wash of Z-Poxy just to even out anything I didn't see. I'm going to follow Todd's lead here and just lay down a 3-4 mil coat of sealer. I want to get my hands on a mil gauge just to make sure. It sounds like I should scuff the Z-Poxy before spraying the sealer, and clearly scuff the sealer before starting the top coats. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
by the way James, that is nice looking wood!!! Is it Imbuia? |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
Joe Beaver wrote: by the way James, that is nice looking wood!!! Is it Imbuia? Thanks, Joe. It's a pretty sweet set of Tiger Myrtle with a bit of curl. I'll post some pictures when it's done. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Interesting finish issue |
I heard back from Mac on Tuesday. He says: Quote: This sealer is not really meant to build with. It is more of a thin washcoat. It looks like you may have sanded through one layer and this material does not melt in the same way lacquer does. You must be careful not to sand through or burn through the sealer. You should lay down one or two wet coats scuff then build with the lacquer if you need the material to be wetter you may want to add a bit of our 1200-08 lacquer thinner. Please let me know if you have other questions. I just came in from spraying a nice heavy coat (one pass over the entire guitar, then another). I dialed my air pressure down to about 10 psi, and got a much better result. The gun had been set at 18 (Iwata's recommendation), but it looks like that was just too much here. I'll scuff tomorrow and shoot three or four similarly heavy coats of lacquer. |
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