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Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
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Author:  George L [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Unlike you more experienced builders it takes me months and months to build a guitar. I'm getting close to finishing one now and all this time the rosette has been bugging me. I kept telling myself it was okay, but deep inside I knew it wasn't and once I had closed the box, added binding and purfling and started fitting the neck, it became obvious that this was just not going to fly. In the past I would have been too intimidated to attempt a redo and just let it go. Not anymore. Last night I made a pot of tea, went out to my shop and put on my thinking cap.

The first question was how to center a rosette cutting tool after the soundhole has been removed. Hmm... I remembered seeing a doughnut hole type of thing in a post somewhere. I took a piece of scrap wood, drilled a center pin hole in it and used my router base to cut a circle matching the diameter of the soundhole and the proper depth to sit flush with the top. Then I used my band saw and belt sander to shape the block until it would fit between the bracing, etc. I hooked a piece of stiff wire through the center hole and used that to pull the block from inside the box and up against the the top as I checked the fit. It was easy to get it right.

Second question was how to keep the block in place. Double hmm... My wife is a crafter and has a closet jammed full of cashmere that she salvages from thrift store sweaters and re-purposes. Maybe I could stuff the box with cashmere, compress that enough to squeeze the little block I'd made down inside and let the expansive force of the wool keep the block snug to the top. I tried it. Hey, it worked! I routed the old rosette out, glued the new one in and called it a night. After scraping and sanding everything smooth this morning I find that it's a perfect fit, with no gaps at all. Excellent!! Now I'm off to work with a smile on my face.

I was so focused on the task at hand that I forgot to take pictures along the way, but the shot below shows the block I made and how the new rosette turned out. Thanks to all of you for helping me gain the confidence to try things like this. I truly couldn't do this without you.

George :-)

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Author:  Beth Mayer [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
What a great idea! Thanks for explaining your process. I don't know why you were unhappy with the first rosette, but it takes some guts to redo it at that stage of the build!!! Nicely done. The top with it's chocolate figure and the complimentary and subtle rosette is really classy.
Author:  Quine [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Nice job on the rosette. That top looks sweet too
Interesting idea on using cashmere to hold it in place. I'm afraid my wardrobe is a little too low-rent to use that technique though lol
Author:  Greg B [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
That looks really great! It's nice to see a simple rosette, and it matches perfectly with the top.
Author:  Tom West [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
George: Nice save.............and I tend to think you were there doing that all by yourself...!!! I like that rosette...an excellent example of less is MORE!!! CONGRATS.
Tom
Author:  WudWerkr [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Great lesson in NOT overthinking things. Simply , easy and practical !
Author:  sdsollod [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
The key to guitar building is to be able to fix things... or make it look like you meant to do it... but you fixed it! good job!
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Well done my friend!!! It is way to nice of a guitar to have left it less than you were happy with. I've been faced with that situation a time or two, although not a rosette, and I've always been glad I went the extra distance and made it right.

That is a gorgeous top. Beautiful work [clap]
Author:  mkellyvrod [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
George, I don't know what it looked like before, but that top couldn't look any better. Great job, the color is outstanding!
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Well done and encouraging - I've got one in the shop that needs to be re-routed for a fix before finishing.
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Yay George! Good going. It would suck to have something on that beautiful top you didn't like. Love the simple rosette.
Author:  George L [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Thanks for all the nice compliments! This guitar features such highly figured woods that I'm keeping the supporting aesthetics very simple. My approach seems to be working and I'm glad. When all is said and done, I think it's going to be a handsome guitar. If I'm not mistaken, I bought the top from Lance a couple of years ago. (Thanks, Lance!) I did a spit coat with shellac before gluing the bindings/purflings in place and was left slack-jawed by the beautiful woods. If you like the look now, you're going to love it later. :-)

Beth - I thought the first rosette was too thin. That would have been okay, but gaps between the rings and the channel were revealed when I scraped everything flush. I tried filling it with sanding dust--no good. Tried squinting my eyes whenever I looked at it--uh uh. Even tried not looking at it at all, but I couldn't sleep at night! Finally, it just had to go.

Todd- I tried a search and found a lot of related info, but nothing specifically applicable. I think I used just about every word I know except "rescue," of course. :-) All's well that ends well!

Quine - Sometimes I think my wife is trying to corner the market on cashmere, but she buys it all from thrift stores! That and vintage dresses, purses, jackets and coats, most of our furniture, various art objects, paintings, wooden bowls, serving trays... it goes on and on. She's a thrifty gal with a keen design sense and a knack for finding bargains. I now have her scanning the tool sections and texting me photos of anything interesting.

Thank you all again,
Author:  mqbernardo [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
it turned out really sweet - i had to re-score a rosette too a while ago and it turned out way worse than yours . next time (knock on wood!) i´ll try your method George.

thanks!
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Great save, George!

I'll add this one in here, for those attempting such a save. I had to do this when I levelled a paua rosette and the colours changed so much I didn't have good piece-to-piece matching. Eventually, I couldn't ignore it, so I did it again.

Start as George did with a disc the same size as the sound hole. Then fix that to your router base. When I did it, I started with a slightly under size pivot hole (the pivot on my router base is 10mm diameter, I used a 3/8" hole) so it just stayed in place. Otherwise a bit of double sided tape would work. Then proceed as normal, as George did. Routing out the shell cost me a router bit (but it was almost dead before I started). Will save you a small fortune in cashmere! :lol:
Author:  George L [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Trevor Gore wrote:
Start as George did with a disc the same size as the sound hole. Then fix that to your router base.


Of course! Affix the center piece to the router. That's simply brilliant! No matter how long I'd pondered the problem I doubt that approach would have ever occurred to me. Great idea!
Author:  jackwilliams [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Very timely for me George.... I have a similar situation on a guitar that I closed in 2009... I hadn't really thought through what I needed to do.... and thanks Trevor for a refinement to the process...
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-routing A Rosette - Success!
Nice save George! Same thing happened to me once. I did like Trevor, and CA'd the disc to the circle cutter base. There was a tiny gap in between the disk and the hole, but, I just kept a pulling tension on the router and everything came out nice and even.
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