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| Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40981 |
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| Author: | Paul Burner [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I am learning that when I started this venture of building guitars I went with cheap used tools that are now biting me in the A$$. So.... What do you use to cut your brace stock. I have a Sears 12" band saw that has blade wobble - and I have an old Ryobi table saw that has a tracking issue thanks to some shims that broke, fell out, etc. I'm beyond frustrated - but am willing to throw some $$ at the problem to get something that works! So... should I get a smaller table saw for doing small things like cutting braces (not sure I have big needs for it) - or do you recommend a just a better band saw with better adjustments. I wish I would have taken those wood shop classes back in my high school days!!!! Give me some recommendations please. Paul |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I spent my first 5 years working out of a shop that was to small for a table saw. So I did everything on a bandsaw, including cutting brace stock. The brace stock would need to be cleaned on the sander after being cut, but it did work. After moving into a larger shop I bought a table saw and it has become one of my favorite tools. Now I cut most of my brace stock on my table saw, but it also has many other uses. Fret slotting on a table saw is so much easier than slotting by hand!  Josh |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Bandsaw first. I went YEARS without a table saw and in fact could live without one now. I can't live without my bandsaw, my edge sander, or my thickness sander. Oh and my router and oscillating spindle sander both for electrics. But my tablesaw, I bought that as a luxury to make a few tasks very simple. |
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| Author: | Paul Burner [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
so... if the answer is band saw - what size - what price range??? Maybe I need to start watching for the "diamond in the rough" craigslist find. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Table saw...........!! Bandsaws are basically made to cut curves..............table saws to cut straight and parallel. Tom |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Why don't you fix your Bandsaw? If it's for only cutting a bit of brace stock I'd just go buy a cheap hardpoint. Heck you might be able to cut it with a kitchen knife and a hammer. This is pretty simple stuff, it does not require throwing a lot of money at it. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Done it both ways, I'm a table saw guy. Cutting brace stock, tapering fretboards, slotting, cross cutting small pieces with a sled, making binding, it's nice to have around. |
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| Author: | Quine [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Go on YouTube and see how to set up a band saw. It's not so hard and even a good band saw will need some set up |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I bandsaw and pass through the sander to thickness , I have a sweet Table saw that I use alot , however I always opt for the bandsaw in smaller applications . to me its a bit safer . |
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| Author: | bftobin [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
For me, I can't afford and don't have room for both saws. Back in the 80's, my choice was a Delta 14" (later got the riser block). Can't say I've ever missed a table saw. My 5/8th resaw blade cuts so smooth I don't do much sanding. With a hardwood straightedge about 2" thick clamped down to the table, it cuts just as straight and parallel as most table saws. Brent |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Craftsman 10in ryobi clone BS, perfect for cutting small bracing stock , sargent #5 j. plane with 25deg bevel for cleanup, or old sears 20 deg block plane for a .005 pass and then a small stanley block plane .001 for finishing or small japanese 6in polishing plane. |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I started woodworking with just a table saw. I then added a radial arm saw which I found to be just about as useful as my table saw. Then I added my bandsaw. I found my bandsaw to be the go-to tool for small jobs since it will do cross cuts, rips and will cut curves. With the proper jigs and fences you can do almost everything on a bandsaw if it has a deep enough throat. Mine is a 14" which is about the smallest I would suggest for a guitar shop. Bigger is better when it comes to a bandsaw. So even though I have a long woodworking background if I were to advise someone building guitars what tool to get first I would have to go with a bandsaw. Even though it leaves a lot of saw marks that need to be sanded I think you will get the most use out of it as a first saw. |
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| Author: | RLHope [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I find having a tablesaw is priceless. I can buy rough stock and do what I want with fingerboards and neck blanks. As for the bandsaw, whether you tune up what you have or get another machine, definitely invest in a carbide tipped blade. The higher tension and sharpness alone will straighten up your cuts. They also last 25X longer than steel, so you save $$ and time in the long run. |
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| Author: | FunkyKikuchiyo [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Dull/inadequate blades on a band saw wander from side to side. A lot of blade issues get blamed on the saw itself, though that isn't to say there isn't any such thing as a bad saw. I haven't used the Ryobi table saw, but if it is anything like my Ryobi sander, there isn't a good, straight reference surface on the thing. I'd test it and see how good it is at cutting straight lines. If it can't perform that function, I don't see too much use for it except for jobs that would be too cumbersome on a band saw. I've seen other table saws that are similarly frustrating, but they've all been older models. My understanding is that table saws in the past 6-7 years are very different. Given my choice between the two, I'd say a band saw, but that's because there can be a lot of fine things you just don't want to do on a table saw. Cutting nut and saddle blanks for example. I come from a repair background, so I'm used to finishing things up on a sander. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
My crappy bandsaw has crapped out on me, so the last brace-work (ok to say this?) was done hand splitting with a froe and mallet from the billet and then with a kataba rip cutting saw, cleaning up with the jack and block plane as needed. to my surprise it wasn´t that hard to accomplish. and rather enjoyable. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
If all you're doing is building guitars and you're not running a cabinet shop, tablesaws are a luxury. If you're running a cabinet shop, tablesaws are an essential tool! |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I consider my tablesaw to be a required tool, but then again, I used to build furniture. I built my first few pieces of furniture with only hand tools so I know I can do without the stationary tools if I really had to. I believe it really has to do with how each person works. That said, I agree the bandsaw is #1 in the luthier shop but I would not want to to pick between my bandsaw and table saw 
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| Author: | grumpy [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I'd happily give up my bandsaw in order to keep my table saw. It's easily the MOST used tool in my shop, where the bandsaw is likely the LEAST used... So yes, table saw to rip braces. Get yee a few 7/14" Freud blades(in 24, 40 and 60 tooth versions) and be done with it. Yes, you can(and should) run 7/14" blades on a table saw.... |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
grumpy wrote: ... Get yee a few 7/14" Freud blades(in 24, 40 and 60 tooth versions) and be done with it. Yes, you can(and should) run 7/14" blades on a table saw.... The Freud 7 1/4" blades with a zero clearance insert are definitely the way to go!! |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Before I started building guitars a bit more than 20 years ago, the table saw was my most used big tool. I still use it to slot fretboards and when I build big things. But, for most of my guitar making cuts, I use the band saw. I started with a used 12" Craftsman band saw. I replaced the bad bearings, got cool blocks for the blade guides, and learned to tune it up. I still have it and use it daily. I keep a fine blade in it for the small stuff and have a much bigger band saw with a much bigger blade for the big stuff. "The New Complete Guide to the Band Saw" by Mark Duginske is good. Get a new blade (or a few new blades--they do wear out) for your band saw and learn how to tune it up. Once you have it working correctly, then the choice of band saw over table saw to use comes down to your preferences. We're all different. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I have a little 10" Craftsman band saw, and it was OK when new, but not great. At a woodworking show here one Spring, I bought a Carter Stabilizer. Best $80 I've ever spent. Gets rid of all blade guides, and reduces blade changing to a few minutes instead of an ordeal. It also removes blade drift to almost non existent. I only use 1/4" blades but I can cut necks true and it's no longer hard to cut the curve at the heel with this thing. At the show they were cuttin reindeer out if a hunk of 2x4, so tight turns aren't an issue. Anyway, it turned an OK SAW into a great saw. It is a guide with a groove in the bearing. Really keeps the blade in line and steady. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I have a 14" Jet Deluxe and use it for everything. One summer during undergrad I worked in the school's shop making thousands of cuts per day on the tablesaw, making these little puzzles for conferences the math dept. held. I'm more than comfortable with both, but don't have the space, budget, or compelling need for a nice tablesaw. Whenever I cut braces, I just set the fence and clean on thickness sander. When I tapered a fretboard last week, I free-handed just outside the line and fine tuned with my #5, which literally took a minute per side (I did a selfy vid for Facebook). A tablesaw would be infinitely more convenient for ripping ply down to size for jigs or whatever, but I haven't found myself wanting. Bear in mind that I do this for recreation, making a guitar a year. I know your volume's a lot higher than that, so the added minutes I don't mind could be more of an issue for you. But when it comes to braces, I just make a batch and have them ready to go. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
Table VS band saw isn't about time savings, it's about accuracy, and no band saw can leave as nice a cut surface, and as precise, as a -good- table saw and blade. |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
I use my 14" Rikon band saw with a 3-4 TPI 5/8" wide blade. It tracks just as good as a table saw when the blade is sharp and set up well. I cut it just a bit wider than final dimensions and sand to width on the thickness sander. I do the bottom (glue side) with a jack plane and either free hand or a jig to cut the correct radius. Top of the brace is left flat and shaped to final dimension after glued up with the usual small hand planes and chisels. It's interesting to see how everybody has different methods that work for them. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cutting Brace Stock - band saw or table saw? |
The more comfortable I get with planes, the more I think about ordering a bench dog and using it as a plane stop. Should be worlds faster than wheeling out the sander and letting it run. |
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