Filippo Morelli wrote:
Aaron, isn't the previous version a far shorter shaft?
Filippo
Filippo
Not really.
If you are knocking the guitar on that buffer, it's probably not the machine's fault.
| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Buffer opinions http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40877 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | RandK [ Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I bought the Stewmac pkg at the end of last year and everything about it is good except that they went cheapo on the most important piece, the shaft is not a turned drive shaft but a cheap chunk of threaded steel that varies in diameter and has excessive runout. I measured the runout at about .015" mid shaft, definitely worse by the ends where the buffs are, probably at least 2x. When I inquired with their customer support about an exchange for one that met their stated "rock solid shaft does not wobble" description, they came back and said the one I have is similar to the others and that an exchange wouldn't help. They did offer a refund and ultimately changed their catalog to remove the erroneous claim. They also took liberties on the dimensions: as it comes the centers between buffs is 29.5". With an extra set of nuts on the inside as locknuts the buffs could be mounted out the ends to provide more clearance and with even more wobble. I have it bolted to the end of a sturdy bench and it makes a really effective paint shaker for gallon cans stacked on the far end. The wobble is bad enough to thump against the guitar body when buffing. The Caswell I have next to it runs a bit fast but works better at less than half the $$$ and a Shopfox would be even less. It is usable but really disappointing. A better shaft would have added $20 which I would have gladly paid to have something that worked as advertised. |
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
If it were me, I'd be Parma all the way. I'm sure the stewmac kit is a good step up from the Caswell systems, but the stability you get from the big shafts feels like driving a Cadillac. Plus the larger buff capacity is nice. The only downside is price. Don't know if the Parma is a kit, but you'll need to lay out for a good motor too. They say 1hp, I'd go 1.5. I don't like it when the buffs sag, but that's me. As for putting it outside, sunlight is not always the best light to see scratches, plus it will vary. Not only that, but you'll get distracted and burn the ribs.... But I'm sure you could find a way to make it work, and it ain't no lie that buffing compound gets all over and is a bit of a sticky mess... |
|
| Author: | Dkeddy27 [ Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Just finished building mine with almost all recycled parts! |
|
| Author: | johnparchem [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I have the stewmac, that I purchased a couple of years ago. I never measured run out, but I never had a need to. Mine runs without shaking or thumping. I have been happy with it. It is the only one I ever used so I have no comparison information. |
|
| Author: | RandK [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Filippo - SM told me that dressing would make it better, well maybe a little different but not better. Also tried rearranging the buffs in every combination looking for improvement. I've dressed them at least 5 times now, a couple of times really heavy. Getting some compound on there always helps with dressing. Those 14" buffs are very fluffy, not like the stiffer 12" flannel on my Stewmac/Caswell. The shaft has wobble, even reversed that, nothing helps. It wobbles about a much with the buffs as without. I do not recommend it because the performance is lousy and the cost is very high. That said, the extra clearance and slower speed is nice. It's a parts kit, you still need to make the base and put it all together to make it a buffer. ALL the fasteners were loose. The cheap Asian motor must be metric horses because it seems very wimpy but works, and the unenclosed fan vacuums in the fluff from dressing the wheels. A link-belt helped a bit and was a worthwhile addition. I wouldn't care if it wobbled a little as long as it buffs a guitar well. It thumps pretty bad against the guitar which makes me want to bury it, and the last light pass doesn't work well because of the wobbling causing uneven engagement. They may have lied to me that they are all like that. If you buy one you may get one that has a good shaft. Crap shoot. |
|
| Author: | brazil66 [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
So glad I saw this....was just about to buy the Stewmac unit. |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Any feedback for the caswell and or parma or other commercial set ups ?? .Need one too ! |
|
| Author: | windsurfer [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I am very happy with my Stewmac. It had a little vibration at first, but once the buffs are broken in it is very smooth. If you swap in a different set of buffs it vibrates a little until you dress and buff a bit then it smooths out. I blame the buffs for this as the shafts are very smooth running. I built the base using the drawing they provide which ends up with 1.5" thick plywood. I clamp the base to the stand I made for my midi lathe. The stand is small but very solid and is filled with sand so it weighs a couple hundred pounds. That might be helping to keep things stable. -jd |
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I have the Caswell machine, it's ok, runs smooth, does the job...eventually. Parma? 5 feet between wheels? Yes please! 18" buffs? C'mon! I also have access to buffers with the Parma sized shaft and big buffs and proper motors. Put it this way, toy vs. tool. Or better yet, Johnny Walker Red vs Laphroaig... |
|
| Author: | B. Howard [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I have the SM with the 1'" shafts and 14" buffs. Love it. 3 feet between buffs is plenty, especially in a small shop. Buff speed is just right for polishing out finishes. |
|
| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I have the Stewmac rig with the 1" shaft; one of the earlier ones. The original shaft had so much run-out (5mm or so) when I span it up that I didn't dare put the buffs on. Stewmac sent me a new shaft (to Australia, free of charge) and that was a lot better, but in no way straight, but usable, just. A shaft with very little run-out is a LOT more user friendly. And, of course, you still have to get the buffs running round even when the shaft is straight. It does a good job, but would be nicer with a straight shaft. |
|
| Author: | jac68984 [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I've got the SM version sold just prior to the latest model. There is certainly more wobble than I'd prefer (I'd prefer zero), but it works great for what we do. I'd buy it again. |
|
| Author: | weslewis [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
shopfox I got from Grizzly using an old motor I had laying around.....buffing pads from stewmac... |
|
| Author: | Robert Hosmer [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I have no experience with either the Stewmac unit or the Parma unit. As has been previously mentioned, I too am of the opinion that the 3/4 HP motor supplied in Stewmac's "complete outfit" is underpowered for the size of wheels likely to be used. So in order to do a truly fair comparison between Stewmac and Parma, it's best to exclude Stewmac's "complete outfit" (the one that includes the motor). So we're looking at a $55 difference between the two. Pros of Stewmac unit are that it includes a few "extras" that the Parma does not: Two bars of compound Wheel rake V-belt Pros of the Parma unit: The shaft is both longer and larger diameter. 16" wheels are supplied versus Stewmac's 14" wheels (their recommended maximum). At first glance, the purported $75 in extras provided by SM seem to be favorable. I do not know what quality of V-belt is supplied with the Stewmac unit, but unless it is one of the non-memory style belts, I'm apt to replace it almost immediately. What I'm attempting to convey is that the addition of a (possibly) cheap belt does not appeal to me as a significant "extra". Same thing with the rake. Many competitors sell the rake in the $15 range, whereas SM sells it for over $23. For that matter, I regularly purchase the replacement teeth for under $7. With that said, Stewmac seems to be in line with competitors regarding pricing on the Menzerna compounds, so that is the only part of the "extras" that I would consider of value for purposes of comparison. Provided the basic requirements are met by both units (meaning each unit provides the needed working room and can handle wheel diameters of your choice), I would certainly pay extra for increased quality (primarily, the shaft) if there seems to be differences between the two in that regard. |
|
| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Some time back there were discussions about building a buffer. We've not been able to get a DIY tutorial or parts list to pull this off. It seems surprising, but sorting this out as a "do it yourself" seems to be elusive. Filippo, FWIW I use a very serviceable single wheel shop-made benchtop buffer. It is basically just a 1/3HP motor and a lee valley mandrel ( http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 3072,45939 ) mounted onto a 12" x 24" plywood plate. It attaches to the benchtop as needed, stores away for the 99.99% of the time it's not, & has never caused problems. It overhangs the bench so the 14" Caswell buffs (attached to one end of the mandrel) are unencumbered & I've never had an issue with the 30 sec it takes to change buffs. |
|
| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Yeah, you're right, I guess I should have clarified that. My archtops are virtually all bolted neck, so finishing (& buffing) neck & body are done separately. (A big reason for this was trying to finish & buff an assembled one.) |
|
| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I know a place who has the Parma rig and they love it. They went out of business recently, and if I had known, I would have offered them money for it. It's really nice... |
|
| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I use the StewMac system on my fully assembled guitars with no real problems. I could wish for more space I guess...but since the wheel speed and belt tension don't really grab the instrument out of your hands and fling it I manage without feeling it's a risk. I did mount the system low so I can polish as I sit in a rolling chair. This adds stability compared to standing. On the shaft concentricity issue...the center hole isn't really fixed perfectly concentrically on any new wheel anyway. New wheels pretty much always require raking to make them spin true so any minor shaft issue is somewhat mitigated by the fact that you have to rake new wheels anyway. I'm not seeing this as an issue unless the shaft is WAY out...but mine seems close to perfect. |
|
| Author: | Robert Hosmer [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Filippo Morelli wrote: The Parma is $55 more. StewMac throws in about $70 worth of additional products you'll need. So call it $125 price difference. The Parma costs about 20-25% more. You'll also need to devise protective covers for the Parma (I would not recommend having the belt uncovered). I've not heard anyone mention whether the Parma shaft is balls on or suffers similar issues ... Filippo On the website for the Parma unit they have a photo of it without the belt cover; however, the literature states that a stainless steel cover is included. Have you attempted to contact the manufacturer of the Parma unit? |
|
| Author: | jac68984 [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Aaron, isn't the previous version a far shorter shaft? Filippo Not really. If you are knocking the guitar on that buffer, it's probably not the machine's fault.
|
|
| Author: | rkohman [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Does anyone have any feedback on the Caswell Rig? http://www.caswellcanada.ca/shop/produc ... 104&page=1 Cheers, Richard |
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
It works. Still a bit of a toy though. You'll need to find better buffs than the ones provided. Nice that its small. Ideal for buffing out scratched CDs. When I start doing more shiners again, I'll be going straight past it and the stewmac to the Parma without a second thought. Buffing on the old rinky dinks is a drag. |
|
| Author: | Danny R. Little [ Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
I have an older (they don't make 'em any more) Grizzly with 1 1/4 " shafts. It has a 2hp motor, direct drive, and a 1200rpm. It is merciless as I have little buffing experience. I just got a Caswell. The cast iron base was broken but they replaced it and were quite nice about it. It runs smoothly. It was recommended by a great repair specialist that you would know as a much better unit than the StewMac one. I have yet to buff a finish with it, but hope it works better. Danny |
|
| Author: | Mike Lindstrom [ Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Dave Stewart wrote: Yeah, you're right, I guess I should have clarified that. My archtops are virtually all bolted neck, so finishing (& buffing) neck & body are done separately. (A big reason for this was trying to finish & buff an assembled one.) OT, but can you point me to a thread that shows how you bolt on a neck with those skinny little sound holes? |
|
| Author: | brazil66 [ Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buffer opinions |
Being as I'm about to spring for a buffer of some sort, and the StewMac thing looks good to me....I contacted them this week, about the shaft quality mentioned here. Their reply was this : "We have added pillow block bearings to the shaft which has solved the problems we have had in the past with the previous version. " I'm wondering if this is a true thing.....problem solved? Any recent experience in regards to this statement. Michael |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|