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| Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40658 |
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| Author: | dylan [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on making nuts and saddles from raw bone. Blanks seem pretty overpriced to me. Thanks for any advice, Dylan |
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| Author: | Dekka [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
I make my own out beef marrow bones. It has to be well aged otherwise it will leach oils into nearby timber. Our new dog unearths bones that our previous dog buried years before. Each one that turns up (if it has enough wall thickness) gets thrown onto the shed roof to whiten up in the sun for a month or two. I cut it with a hacksaw in the same way you would quarter-saw timber. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
I make my own from butcher shop bones. I just boil for about an hour, let dry in the sun for a week or so. The next step is the important one. Cut the bone into the general sizes you want then put them in a quart jar filled with DA. Let them sit for a couple weeks, pour the DA out and refill. Let sit for another week then you are good to go. The DA soak removes the grease. You don't want any in your bone. It may slowly leach into the surrounding wood. There was a good article on the subject that someone linked to on the OLF. If I can find it I'll post it. |
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| Author: | dylan [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Thanks very much, that's very helpful. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Here is a link to the article I was referring to. It appears he uses white gas to degrease. I believe that is the same as naphtha. http://direct.hangoutstorage.com/banjoh ... 112012.pdf |
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| Author: | nyazzip [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Quote: White gas is a common name for two flammable substances.
1.In its most common modern usage, "white gas" is used as a generic name for camp stove and lantern fuel, usually naphtha. 2.White gasoline, also called white gas, can also be a name for pure gasoline, without additives. This was commonly used when leaded gasoline was the norm, to prevent fouling in situations where the properties of the tetraethyl lead additive were not required. "White" gas is colorless, as opposed to "regular" octane fuel, which has orange dye added for identification, or high-octane "ethyl", which has purple dye added. White gas should not be confused with white spirit, which is more akin to kerosene. |
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| Author: | gorjan [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Joe Beaver wrote: I make my own from butcher shop bones. I just boil for about an hour, let dry in the sun for a week or so. The next step is the important one. Cut the bone into the general sizes you want then put them in a quart jar filled with DA. Let them sit for a couple weeks, pour the DA out and refill. Let sit for another week then you are good to go. The DA soak removes the grease. You don't want any in your bone. It may slowly leach into the surrounding wood. There was a good article on the subject that someone linked to on the OLF. If I can find it I'll post it. Excuse me for asking, but what is DA mentioned in this post? Thanks, Gorjan |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Denatured alcohol, Methylated Spirits, meths. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Man luthiery work seems to be more overpriced in the US... Best I can do is 15 dollars for each and people still have second thoughts about having a bone nut make (seeing how nearly all factory guitars don't even use bone). I have to buy from ebay or else I'd make next to nothing for an hour of work making them. You can buy it at around a dollar each on ebay if you're willing to tolerate specs that may not be to your liking... Has anyone tried pig bones for making nuts? Cow bones don't really exist in Taiwan at reasonable prices (last I checked they wanted 30 dollars for a leg bone, not the whole leg but only a small section, for the purpose of making soup) |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Todd, is all ordering with Chrislin by phone only? Their website is sparse, unless I went to the wrong place. Mike |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
gorjan wrote: Joe Beaver wrote: Excuse me for asking, but what is DA mentioned in this post? Thanks, Gorjan It's not. I usually have it handy so I use it. Seems to work OK. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Joe Beaver wrote: gorjan wrote: Joe Beaver wrote: Excuse me for asking, but what is DA mentioned in this post? Thanks, Gorjan It's not. I usually have it handy so I use it. Seems to work OK. What, not where.  Seems a lot of folks find the term DA or DNA confusing. Refers to denatured alcohol. BTW, I find it odd that DNA would be a solvent for grease in a bone. Seems Naptha would work better.
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
dylan wrote: I was wondering if anyone has any advice on making nuts and saddles from raw bone. Blanks seem pretty overpriced to me. Thanks for any advice, Dylan I thought that too, once upon a time. After making several nuts and saddles from petstore bones, the price of blanks seems much more reasonable, unless you really like that "dentist office" smell... 
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
I've never managed to find cow bone at a pet store. All they have is processed ground up bone meals molded into the shape of a bone. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Tai Fu wrote: Man luthiery work seems to be more overpriced in the US... Best I can do is 15 dollars for each ) Well after paying $3-5 for the part that leaves you 10-12 dollars for one hour of labor (which is not like making $10/hr, unless you line up 40hrs/wk of that work each week). If you can make a living in Taiwain at $10/hr, that's awesome. Good luck doing that in the US ... overpriced? lol ... Filippo Average wage in Taiwan (actually minimum wage, because it's impossible to get raises in Taiwan since the boss is very frugal) is around 3 dollars an hour... you get a tiny bit more with a college degree and working as an engineer but they still get maybe 5 dollars an hour if they're lucky. Monthly salary seems ok but when you're working 12 hours a day 6 days a week, on top of having to be on call 24/7, you actually do better working at 7-11. The economy works for that kind of wage but inflation has taken its toll since wage has been stagnant for over 10 years while cost keeps rising. People aren't falling head over heels getting me to make bone nuts/saddle for them. I can convince them all day the benefit of bone but in the end they still go back to the crappy soft plastic nut/saddle that virtually every manufacturer use. I only offer bone because the amount of work needed is enough that customers wouldn't see any real savings if I used plastic (basically I'd charge the same) however most of the time they'll go to a music shop to have them do a "setup" for them. However all they can do is sand the saddle down since factory guitars always have a super high action. They don't do any truss rod adjustments or nut adjustment. |
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| Author: | gorjan [ Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
in Macedonia the average wage per month is around $400. And cow bones, the biggest and best ones cost around $2. That is why I am currently in the process of making my own. I read somewhere that after boiling and cleaning the bone you should leave it for a couple of weeks in water mixed with washing detergent. thank you could cut it up and leave it in white gas (coleman camping fuel). The problem is that I am at the white gas stage, but there is no white gas in Macedonia (at least I couldn't find any). Do you think pure alcohol could work? We can buy purified medicine alcohol that is either 75% of 97% pretty cheap here. I don't really like handling denatured alcohol Gorjan |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Don't you have gasoline? That would work too. White gas is basically Naphtha, if you don't know what it is look for paint thinner or something. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Naphtha is sometimes referred to as "white gas", but that term is also used to describe refined petrol without additives -- not the same at all. Cheapest access to naphtha is often as "panel wipe", sold by automotive paint suppliers as degreasing and cleaning solvent before paint application. Just make sure naphtha is noted under ingredients. (Also works as Coleman fuel substitute in camping stoves). |
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| Author: | jeff crisp [ Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Methylated spirits will work fine. It doesn't need to be denatured. If you have any acetone lying around, that will work. If it dessolves fat and doesn't leave a residue like kero, it will work. Some things will just work faster than others. |
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| Author: | Dennis Duross [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
I've been using African Blackwood for nuts. Quite hard stuff, and dirt cheap. I thought I'd use it until I got more experience (and stopped ruining my bone stock), but I've grown rather fond of it. In any event it's head-and-shoulders better than plastic. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Concentrated dish detergent will remove oils from cocobolo. I'll bet it would work for removing oils from bone also, although I haven't tried that. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
another good source for high quality, generously oversized blanks is euphonon. the last time I sought some they were $2 each. they also have very long blanks for odd sorts, they also are a very good source for bulk, unpackaged strings. in reasonable quantities under $3 a set. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making bone nuts and saddles from scratch |
Detergents dissolve grease/oil. I guess they would work. Just might take a little longer and you might have to warm the water. It's nearly 30 years since I last made a Nut from raw bone. I'm thinking of doing so again just to avoid the bleached ready made blanks. I'm after slightly cream/yellowed inlay pieces. |
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