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| which woods react least to changes in humidity? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40141 |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
I believe that mahogany is appreciated for its resistance to changes in humidity, in that it doesn't expand or contract very much. What north American woods share this trait? Looking for some readily available woods from lumberyards for making a three dimensional puzzle. Need the wood to hold its dimensions. Ideas? Thanks. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Pine is fairly stable. Alex |
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| Author: | PeterF [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Alex Kleon wrote: Pine is fairly stable. Alex No it's not. Pine warps and cups terribly, even when close to quarter sawn. At least, the stuff I use does. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Plywoods! Sorry, it was the first thing on the top of my head...but it's true. Baked woods! Ok, that was slightly more serious...cooking the wood ruins its ability to take up and release moisture, making it less warpy. Maple is up there for least warpy woods, given how well it works in most any cut orientation in a million Fender necks. So, in summation, maybe some of that carmelized maple would be the ticket? Even better if you made ply out of it, though 
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
in my experience, mahogany. both "true" and khaya, but not sapelle. ebony is pretty bad, and madagascar rosewood is proving rather susceptible too. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
PeterF wrote: Alex Kleon wrote: Pine is fairly stable. Alex No it's not. Pine warps and cups terribly, even when close to quarter sawn. At least, the stuff I use does. I have to disagree, Peter. The problem most people have with any wood warping or cupping is because once it has been dimensioned, they lay it flat on a work surface, restricting one surface from expanding/contracting, and not finishing all surfaces equally. Over the last 25 yrs, I've made a lot of cabinets and furniture from white pine, all of it flat sawn, without problems. My kitchen table where I'm sitting is three boards and 35" wide, and flat. Moisture content and equilibrium will also factor how any wood will react. As a species, white pine is known to be stable, how we treat and work it will determine the results. Alex |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
I always found mahogany to be pretty stable dimensionally. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
According to resources for sizing panels in 5 pc. cabinet doors, Mahogany is among the most stable woods listed with regards to change in RMC. But Maple, while having more movement tends to react much slower and can appear more stable on a daily basis on a guitar in a touring situation. |
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| Author: | David Malicky [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Pages 16 and 17 show the coefficients of expansion (per % EMC) for common dried woods: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgt ... ter_13.pdf For a 3D puzzle, for the minimum Cr and especially Ct, Northern Catalpa looks best. Also Eastern Red Cedar (aromatic). Sugar and Eastern White Pine are good, other Pines more average. Their Mahogany numbers aren't very low, but the footnote says that data is over a wider MC range. |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Mahogany, black walnut seems stable in my experience as well. I hear macassar ebony is stable too, at least relative to the usual ebony. But you are interested in North AMerican woods...so black walnut should work out for you well I think. |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
mesquite...most dimensionally stable wood I've worked with... prime example: leak occurs in a house under construction...decimates the 1st floor....subfloor removed and trashed, oak hardwood flooring history...mesquite flooring in study felt wet to the touch, but hadn't cupped or anything...wood was removed, subfloor R&R'd, mesquite was allowed to dry and was put back down... can't think of any other wood I've dealt with that would have survived that...hmmm...well maybe ipe, but I rather hate that stuff... |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
David Malicky wrote: Pages 16 and 17 show the coefficients of expansion (per % EMC) for common dried woods: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgt ... ter_13.pdf For a 3D puzzle, for the minimum Cr and especially Ct, Northern Catalpa looks best. Also Eastern Red Cedar (aromatic). Sugar and Eastern White Pine are good, other Pines more average. Their Mahogany numbers aren't very low, but the footnote says that data is over a wider MC range. David. Thanks for this. Very interesting reading. I find it interesting in a number of ways. One is that many have suggested that persimmon, being very hard, might make a decent substitution for ebony as a fretboard or bridge material. But it seems to react very strongly to changes in humidity. Seems not to bode well for guitars built with it as a fretboard or bridge. Also, maple looks good, and so do all those pines. And they are so different in terms of their hardness. Maybe I'm worrying too much about this. |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Mike_P wrote: mesquite...most dimensionally stable wood I've worked with... prime example: leak occurs in a house under construction...decimates the 1st floor....subfloor removed and trashed, oak hardwood flooring history...mesquite flooring in study felt wet to the touch, but hadn't cupped or anything...wood was removed, subfloor R&R'd, mesquite was allowed to dry and was put back down... can't think of any other wood I've dealt with that would have survived that...hmmm...well maybe ipe, but I rather hate that stuff... Mesquite. That would be cool, and would smell good too. Not sure I can find pieces big enough to cut that would work for the piece I'm thinking of. As for ipe, ugh. I think I'd need a very strong laser to cut it straight. |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
B. Howard wrote: According to resources for sizing panels in 5 pc. cabinet doors, Mahogany is among the most stable woods listed with regards to change in RMC. But Maple, while having more movement tends to react much slower and can appear more stable on a daily basis on a guitar in a touring situation. thanks, Brian. I think I'm going to start with maple. Hard, pretty, and common. And if it's pretty stable, that's even better. You going to ASIA this year? I think I saw you at the last one. Corky |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Corky Long wrote: Mike_P wrote: mesquite...most dimensionally stable wood I've worked with... prime example: leak occurs in a house under construction...decimates the 1st floor....subfloor removed and trashed, oak hardwood flooring history...mesquite flooring in study felt wet to the touch, but hadn't cupped or anything...wood was removed, subfloor R&R'd, mesquite was allowed to dry and was put back down... can't think of any other wood I've dealt with that would have survived that...hmmm...well maybe ipe, but I rather hate that stuff... Mesquite. That would be cool, and would smell good too. Not sure I can find pieces big enough to cut that would work for the piece I'm thinking of. As for ipe, ugh. I think I'd need a very strong laser to cut it straight. well, I admit that I most likely have an 'advantage' on the subject of mesquite since a lot of it is milled here in Texas...but, I think you should be able to find a piece big enough for just about anything if you look a bit... http://www.mesquiteburl.com/mesquite-lumber.aspx ...can't give any recommendation about that place, just found it quickly on google...all of the stuff I've used has been supplied through middlemen... I've dealt with some pretty big slabs of the stuff over the years (easily big enough to make an electric out of a solid piece) |
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| Author: | Alain Moisan [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
I believe western red cedar is your best bet. It's even used unfinished for outside furniture since like forever. |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Petrified wood is pretty awesome but its a bugger to bend. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Black Locust or Honey Locust. |
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| Author: | FishtownMike [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
PeterF wrote: Alex Kleon wrote: Pine is fairly stable. Alex No it's not. Pine warps and cups terribly, even when close to quarter sawn. At least, the stuff I use does. Southern pine does pretty well. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Corky Long wrote: B. Howard wrote: According to resources for sizing panels in 5 pc. cabinet doors, Mahogany is among the most stable woods listed with regards to change in RMC. But Maple, while having more movement tends to react much slower and can appear more stable on a daily basis on a guitar in a touring situation. thanks, Brian. I think I'm going to start with maple. Hard, pretty, and common. And if it's pretty stable, that's even better. You going to ASIA this year? I think I saw you at the last one. Corky Yes, I'll be there. See you then. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Eastern red Cedar (smells divine). Not really surprising that it's pretty stable in respect to moisture. They use it in fipple flutes, Recorders etc. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Basswood (Tilia americana) |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Goodin wrote: I hear macassar ebony is stable too, at least relative to the usual ebony. I did some wet-room tests and it seems to move at least as much, if not actually more, than African ebony. But it seems to crack harder, and it is definitely less brittle when flexing it. My samples were returned to the dry shop and a couple days later I found the black ebony cracked from the fast drying, the Macassar was in 1 piece and not warped. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
I have worked with Catalpa and that is about as stable as a piece of wood can be. There are a few factors you overlooked , and that is how it was dried. I find kiln dried to be more stable than air dried . Also the cut . while well quartered may stay flatter it may shrink and expand more than flat sawn. All wood will move to a degree. Petrified is the most stable and you don't need a filler |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: which woods react least to changes in humidity? |
Cherry, sassafras, and black locust are some of the most stable domestic woods I have used. Walnut is also a good choice. I would stay away from sugar maple. Silver maple and bigleaf are much better, but not as good as the woods I recommended. |
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