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Author:  B. Howard [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  cites
I saw a few news stores about the convention and rosewood and ebony being further restricted. Anyone got any more info?
Author:  peter.coombe [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
From a search of the CITES database there has been no change to the rosewoods since 2011, and there is no species of Ebony listed. So no changes as of this date, but I have no idea if there are any changes pending.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
I got this link from a topic on the subject over at the MIMF.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21759988

Maybe you saw the exact same thing, but I thougth I'd post it anyway.
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
All the laws on the planet won't stop the Chinese from taking what they want... They're behind the slaughter of rhinos, elephants and who-knows-how-many other species. They go into other countries and mine and harvest where they have no business, and it matters little to them. Hmmm... sounds vaguely familiar. I guess all emerging markets have their issues with fueling their materialism and arrogant excesses...
At least now the world is more informed as to what is going on, so that there is the knowledge that we are driving flora and fauna to extinction. It's just too bad we don't take the responsibility for it ourselves as a species and be better stewards of our home, the Earth.
Author:  B. Howard [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Yes, the BBC article was one of the two I read yesterday. Seemed to mention a lot of "Asian" rosewood and I also saw something about "100'a" of species of ebony. That last one has me wondering, didn't even know there were that many individual species of ebony. Of anyone sees a list, please post a link as this will surely effect us.
Author:  forgottenwoods [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Like everything if you want to know what is going on check FaceBook...
http://www.facebook.com/cites
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
forgottenwoods wrote:
Like everything if you want to know what is going on check FaceBook...
http://www.facebook.com/cites


Well, unless I missed it, their Facebook page doesn't really tell us what's going on with new woods placed on Appendix II (except for Thailand rosewood (Dalbergia cochinchinensis), which it is clearly stated).
Author:  forgottenwoods [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Alain Moisan wrote:
forgottenwoods wrote:
Like everything if you want to know what is going on check FaceBook...
http://www.facebook.com/cites


Well, unless I missed it, their Facebook page doesn't really tell us what's going on with new woods placed on Appendix II (except for Thailand rosewood (Dalbergia cochinchinensis), which it is clearly stated).


When they make a new listing they will post the news.
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
The other big news out of the conference, according to Chuck Erikson over on MIMF, is the agreement for implementation of an instrument "passport", to replace(?) the current permit system, for international travel of instruments containing protected species.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
A Passport for everything, further segregating the world... I guess people evolve a lot slower than technology.
Author:  Herr Dalbergia [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Today I read that the last convention was from 3 of march to 14 of march this year. to the already about 200 existing species which are under cites control ( in different apenndixes of course) they added 261 more species. Lots of ebony and rosewoods from asia and madagascar. Unfortunatelly I do not have a complete list yet, which species is undergoing which appendix.
Author:  William Shafer III [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
What has always confused me (guess I haven't read enough about tree farming) is why you wouldn't farm precious woods like ebony and rosewood. Here in Colorado and other parts of the west a lot of hard and soft woods are farm grown for construction and furniture. Is it very difficult to grow tropical species? Or is it more about not taking the time to learn how to? I just don't get it. Clear cutting is at a minmum out here. They either take naturally fallen trees or selectively harvest. I love exotic woods as much as everybody, but I'd rather not have all my favorite woods go the way of sandelwood. idunno
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
You're talking about Africa where people are extremely short sighted. They will clear an entire forest (for farmlands I guess) and sell the woods as a means of income. I don't think it ever occurred to them that they could farm it. Also ebony takes very long (like hundreds of years) before it grows to a usable size..
Author:  William Shafer III [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Yea, guess ebony is like mesquite. Very hard and takes decades to grow to usage sizes... And yes short sided, I guess when your starving it's hard to think about your children let alone your grandchildren or great-grandchildren.

Speaking of durability though... I wonder how mesquite would work for a ebony replacement? Obviously the color is not there, but I've worked with it and it is almost as hard as Ipe. Also, here in the western US it is considered a pest wood. Most of it gets chipped up and sold for charcoal or smoking. Hmm... guess I'll have to try some bridges and nuts, maybe even a fingerboard. I love the idea of using local woods almost as much as exotics.
Author:  Herr Dalbergia [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
http://www.bfn.de/0305_cites_holz_cop16.html

I know...wrong language, but you should find this somewhere at you Fishing and Wildlife gouvernment departement or so....
Author:  Gerry Gruber [ Wed May 01, 2013 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
If I understand correctly, these changes take place June 12th (the one that could affect me the most is the moving up to Appendix II of cocobolo, as I am just about to acquire some cocobolo for a build to be exported into the US). Such is life.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed May 01, 2013 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
I just read on another forum that it applies only to the raw lumber, not to finished products.
Author:  Gerry Gruber [ Wed May 01, 2013 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
That could have been me... MIMF? I did read from a German government website that indicated it was for raw wood only. Problem is, that to the Lacey Act, it doesn't matter whether it is raw wood or a finished product... in that it is illegal to trade in wood that was at any point in the "chain-of-custody" illegally handled. So, whether one has a cocobolo sides/back set or a finished guitar, one still has to show "due dilligence" that there was no illegality in the history of the wood.
Author:  JoeUlman [ Wed May 01, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
peter.coombe wrote:
From a search of the CITES database there has been no change to the rosewoods since 2011, and there is no species of Ebony listed. So no changes as of this date, but I have no idea if there are any changes pending.


Hmm, by my count there are over 100 ebonies listed in appendix III.

http://www.unep-wcmc.org/cites-listed-trees_501.html

Joe
Author:  peter.coombe [ Wed May 01, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Quote:
Hmm, by my count there are over 100 ebonies listed in appendix III.


Thanks for that. These must have been added since I last searched the CITES database. I could find no species of Diospyros listed then. Is interesting that all the listed Diospyros species are from Madagascar. I had no idea there were so many different species of Ebony trees in Madagascar. They are listed in Appendix III, so finished products should be ok, logs, sawn wood and veneer not ok. Date of listing is stated as 22/12/11, which is a bit strange since I searched for Diospyros in the database and checklist and could find nothing.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Wed May 01, 2013 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
http://www.cites.org/eng/notif/2013/E-Notif-2013-012.pdf

On page 6 it looks like pretty much all rosewoods and ebonies from Madagascar are to be listed on Appendix II, and granadillo, cocobolo, and Honduran rosewood will be listed there as well. I have a couple of questions:

1. What are the practical implications of a species moving from Appendix III to II?
2. Today just cocobolo from Guatemala and Panama are listed, but it looks like all cocobolo will be on Appendix II going forward. I have some Mexican cocobolo... what's the procedure to get it certified as pre-CITES material? I'm trying to get enough info to decide if it's worth the trouble.
Author:  B. Howard [ Thu May 02, 2013 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Firs anyone know if all those species of ebony are unique to Madagascar?
Author:  John Arnold [ Thu May 02, 2013 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
I suspect that most of the Madagascar ebony species are not commercial....either they are too small, or do not produce much black heartwood. In general, the Madagascar ebony species most commonly listed in commerce is D. perrieri.
Author:  Gerry Gruber [ Fri May 03, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cites
Hey James. The implications of moving from III to II is that the specified wood species is now controlled regardless of country of origin. For example, with cocobolo at the moment being in Appendix III for Panama and Guatamala populations only, if you have Mexican cocobolo, there are no restrictions. If you have Guatamalan cocobolo, you would need a permit to export/import it. Once cocobolo moves to Appendix II in June, it won't matter where the cocobolo came from, it must be papered to be exported/imported. However, the Appendix II listing will apply only to lumber, not to finished products. So, if you make a guitar out of your Mexican cocobolo, there are no CITES restrictions on exporting/importing that guitar. (You still have to make a Lacey Declaration to import any guitar into the USA - even a plastic one.)
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