Quote:
So do people throw fits and whine about the lack of tradition?
...i know i would, if i was buying one! bolt-on, schmolt-on......even if it is technically superior.
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| classicals question http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=39436 |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | classicals question |
Anybody building classicals with dovetails or M/T neck joints? |
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| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
Double MT bolt-on for me. All the classicals/neo-classcials shown on my website have that neck joint. Some pics here. |
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| Author: | Alain Moisan [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Butt joint here. Filippo Same. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
I've done both glued mortise and tenon and bolted butt joint. Both work just fine. |
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| Author: | WilliamS [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
I've always done a Spanish foot for classicals but am currently in the process of switching over to a bolted butt for all my builds. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
So do people throw fits and whine about the lack of tradition? |
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| Author: | nyazzip [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
Quote: So do people throw fits and whine about the lack of tradition? ...i know i would, if i was buying one! bolt-on, schmolt-on......even if it is technically superior.
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
nyazzip wrote: Quote: So do people throw fits and whine about the lack of tradition? ...i know i would, if i was buying one! bolt-on, schmolt-on......even if it is technically superior. That may depend on whether your audience is collectors/home players or traveling professionals. Guitars with traditional Spanish heels may not even be in the majority among pro players at this point. (or, if so, may be quickly losing what margin they have.) I still use Spanish heels, but my nose is in Trevor's book a lot. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
You can do a Spanish foot shape inside and attach the neck with a spline. Brune does that. My Kohno 30 is constructed that way. The Kohno appears to have the inside block cut from the same piece as the built up heel. The inside block is all one piece, whereas the neck is built up. In the case of my Kohno, the block has end grain against the sides, which would have weak glue joint; however, once the spline is installed, the entire assembly is about the same as a one-piece Spanish neck. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
Leaning toward butt bolt on ala trev, also have jigs for m ,an t plus a dovetail ,but will try 1 spanish heel CL and tenor uke. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
The market place for bolt on vs Spanish foot, has evolved greatly. I don't see many who really care any more, unless they are purists of some sort. There are just too many great builders using bolt on necks of various types these days. I like the Spanish foot, because I like working in a solera. Keeps things nicely aligned. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
Yeah, bolt on doesn't dictate the the shape of the heel block inside the guitar. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
What's funny about all of this is that the separate neck is a far older tradition than the Spanish heel with the sides plugged in. One author has suggested that the Spanish method came about when the guilds faded out in Spain, and untutored individuals started making guitars. The solera evolved as a 'hand tool mass production' jig that allowed one to work simultaneously on several guitars, so there would be no down time. The jig takes care of all the tricky alignment issues; you only have to be careful making something once. The big drawback to the solera method is that you can't get the neck off to re-set it once the action gets too high and you've run out of saddle. I figured out a way around that a couple of years ago. I start by making the neck, with the usual tenon, and mortise on a neck block. When everything fits right, I glue the block to the neck with 2mm shims in between to allow for plugging in the sides. The neck-block assembly is then simply treated like a one-piece neck with side slots to make a guitar on the solera. So long as you remember to cut away the top over the tenon, the neck can be steamed off like any normal dovetail, but you have the advantage of constructing the guitar on a jig that sets up the alignment and pitch of the neck. The mortice and tenon are easy to fit, since you don't have to sweat the alignment at that stage. It's also easier to get smooth surfaces in the slot, and you can size them with hot hide glue before you glue the neck and block together. I've also used this with bolt-on necks, with equal success. |
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| Author: | matt jacobs [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
WaddyThomson wrote: The market place for bolt on vs Spanish foot, has evolved greatly. I don't see many who really care any more, unless they are purists of some sort. There are just too many great builders using bolt on necks of various types these days. I like the Spanish foot, because I like working in a solera. Keeps things nicely aligned. I haven't seen a whole lot of resistance to alternative neck connections either. Some of the biggest names in the business don't use a spanish heel construction, Humphrey (RIP), Brune, Ruck, Smallman |
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| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
matt jacobs wrote: I haven't seen a whole lot of resistance to alternative neck connections either. Some of the biggest names in the business don't use a spanish heel construction, Humphrey (RIP), Brune, Ruck, Smallman Add Fleta and Stauffer to that list. The Spanish heel is, well, Spanish. The rest of Europe used separates. Alan Carruth wrote: The big drawback to the solera method is that you can't get the neck off to re-set it once the action gets too high and you've run out of saddle. I figured out a way around that a couple of years ago. It takes a brilliant mind to come up with something that simple! Just remember to put a note in there Al, so that your successors don't try to slip the back! |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: classicals question |
I'm pretty sure that the Spanish foot method is pretty old. After all it's found on Vihuelas and Baroque Guitars, they go back a bit. I'm also pretty sure that the vast majority (99%+) of Players are not in the least bit bothered which type of joint is on their Guitars, providing it does the job. I make Slipper foot, Mortice and Dovetail joints but only because I'm making historical copies. |
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