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| What's in your sandwich? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=39095 |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What's in your sandwich? |
I am considering switching to a fox style bender. What is your "sandwich" when using this type of bender? (e.g. slat, blanket, paper, wood, paper, blanket, slat) |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
From the bottom up: Spring steel slat wood - spritzed and wrapped in aluminum foil aluminum flashing heat blanket spring steel slat I like having the blanket on top of the wood so that it stays in contact and heats uniformly. I think some people prefer it underneath. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
from the bottom up also. -heat blanket -slat -wood wrapped in paper, paper soaked in water after wrapping. -slat |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Pretty much the same here. From the bottom up: Spring steel slat, foil, wood, blanket, foil slat. I no longer wrap the wood with the foil. Bending the folded foil causes it to crinkle which can leave marks in many types of wood. Instead, I use one sheet of foil cut lengthwise to make two discrete pieces or foil. No more crinkles. With oily wood, I will also use paper which again is cut lengthwise to avoid crinkling. Cutting the paper was a tip I got from this forum. I am pretty sure Todd Stock posted it, but I am not certain. It is a good tip, so thanks to whoever posted it. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
For the paper I use the 6" wide rolls of light-brown paper usually used by painters in the paper/masking tape dispensers. Had some left over from painting the house and turns out it works well and is convenient. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
From the bottom, blanket, slat, paper, wood, paper, slat, blanket, slat. I cover the blue tempered shim stock slats with Al foil as well. |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Slat, blanket, thermo couple, side and bindings wetted in foil, slat. I use 8 wood clothes pins to hold the assembly together during heating (the wood doesn't melt). I try to keep the blanket in direct contact with the side package. The clothes pins do a good job. What are your target temperatures? Cheers, Michael |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
From the bottom up... Flaxseed Mayo Phoney balogna Cheddar Lettuce Mustard Flaxseed... Someone had to do it.... |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
meddlingfool wrote: From the bottom up... Flaxseed Mayo Phoney balogna Cheddar Lettuce Mustard Flaxseed... Someone had to do it.... Phew! I came this close (I-I) ! Thanks for taking the hit, Meddling! Alex |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
meddlingfool wrote: From the bottom up... Flaxseed Mayo Phoney balogna Cheddar Lettuce Mustard Flaxseed... Someone had to do it.... Wow!  That's super thick. How much compensation did you have to allow for when making the bending mold? 
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Chris Ensor wrote: meddlingfool wrote: From the bottom up... Flaxseed Mayo Phoney balogna Cheddar Lettuce Mustard Flaxseed... Someone had to do it.... Wow! That's super thick. How much compensation did you have to allow for when making the bending mold? You have any problems with springback ![[xx(]](./images/smilies/smiley11.gif "Dead")
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Seems like a natural for making a grilled cheese! |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
SteveSmith wrote: Chris Ensor wrote: meddlingfool wrote: From the bottom up... Flaxseed Mayo Phoney balogna Cheddar Lettuce Mustard Flaxseed... Someone had to do it.... Wow! That's super thick. How much compensation did you have to allow for when making the bending mold? You have any problems with springback No but Off Gassing can make for a rough build !!
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
A lot less springback since I went vegetarian... |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
SteveSmith wrote: Chris Ensor wrote: meddlingfool wrote: From the bottom up... Flaxseed Mayo Phoney balogna Cheddar Lettuce Mustard Flaxseed... Someone had to do it.... Wow! That's super thick. How much compensation did you have to allow for when making the bending mold? You have any problems with springback No, but after a few years, bending becomes a problem
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| Author: | woody b [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Todd Stock wrote: Spring steel slat, foil sheet, wet paper, dry wood, wet paper, foil, slat, blanket, slat Me too. I bent my first 10 or so on a hot pipe. When I built my Fox style bender I copied the "sandwich" from one of Todd's videos. It works so I've never tried any other combination. |
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| Author: | James W B [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
You guys forgot salt and pepper |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
I always used a pipe in the past but recently got a bending unit from John Hall. I've only bent two sets with it so far using slat/wood/slat/blanket as per his videos. Fast and flawless for the mahogany and Pau Ferro that I used. I can see using the paper and foil for highly figured or lighter woods. |
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| Author: | gozierdt [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
From the bottom Slat/Blanket/paper/wood/paper/thermocouple/Blanket/Slat I started using two blankets about a year ago. Working very well so far, but I've not bent any really tough or highly figured sides yet. I like the idea of heating from both sides. I had used foil for a while, but so far I don't see any problem without it. I wrapped the foil over and folded the two edges together to make a sealed sleeve with the idea of holding the water in the wood for a bit longer. A little off topic, but don't forget SuperSoft II for the really highly figured stuff... |
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| Author: | ChuckH [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What's in your sandwich? |
Mines is just blanket, steel slat, wet wood, steel slat, blanket with a thermo stuck in the mix. And down a home brew or 12 while watching the wood bake. I loves me two blankets too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Not all blankets are the same. I use a 5 watt per sq inch. Wood gets hot it bends. I did modify my bending technique Slat wet paper wood ( dampened ) wet paper blanker slate the thermometer is under the top slat and on top of the blanket. With water in the mix you can get a steam reading not real heat so I want to know the heat of the blanket. Some woods don't like as much water as other woods, Maple and Koa if made too wet can actually over bend. I will keep the blanket in contact with the wood and went the blankets reads 250F I bend the lower bout , I check the upper bout that things are still damp ( NOT WET) and then drive the waist cawl about 1 inch from the bottom then do the upper bout. By this time my heat is about 275 F then I finish the waist. Some woods will take more heat to set the bend than others so keep a log. I thin let the heat rise to 275 to 350 for most woods. Once I attain that temp I turn the heat back to about 200 to 230 to cook off the water and allow the wood to cool. Mahogany and Maple , Padauck all seem to like more heat Cocobolo will bend well at 250. Watch for soft spots. This can often lead to cupping. Also Super Soft is not a bad thing to have in your shop. As you can see by the posts , there is a common thread , wood gets hot it bends , so the key is time and heat duration. I am done bending in about 4 to 5 minutes from the time I turn on the unit. There are many ways to do this so find the technique you are comfortable with. I will often bend my binding with the sides I am bending. |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
What is the advantage of putting a slat in both sides of the blanket? Is it just for protection? |
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| Author: | gozierdt [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Yes, I put the upper slat over the blanket to protect the upper blanket from being torn as I pull the bending holddowns (?) across and down the upper and lower bouts. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Bread Ketchup and mustards pickles tomatoes lettuce mystery meat (could be beef, pork, chicken, dog, cat, rabbit, or whatever) cheese another mystery meat more cheese mayonaise bread |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What's in your sandwich? |
Chris Ensor wrote: What is the advantage of putting a slat in both sides of the blanket? Is it just for protection? I like to put something between the blanket and the wood because, without it, I do get an imprint of the blanket on the side. I just use a piece of light aluminum flashing rather than a real bending slat. |
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