Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Bone Saddle Breaking
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38571		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Bone Saddle Breaking
The Break angle on my Bridge saddle is to sharp and the bone saddle broke . I was thinking of routing out the Saddle slot to accept 1/8" instead of 3/32 " for slightly more strength . Also contemplating Filling the Pin holes with Maple glued in with a purple heart inlay and drilling new holes slightly back to give a easier angle . Am I asking for more trouble down the road ?

Attachment:
100_1431c.JPG
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
How tall is your saddle Jim? Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks a little tall which would definitely add to the stress on it.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Darrel Friesen wrote:
How tall is your saddle Jim? Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks a little tall which would definitely add to the stress on it.



That's part of the Issue . First Guitar . To properly fix this I would need to do a neck reset and get the angle up slightly . Don't wanna do that . THAT saddle is not trimmed to size , however at correct height its still 3/16"+ above the bridge which gives u an almost 30 Deg angle for string break .
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
that is not too horribly high you may have some bad bone. You may have the holes too close to the saddle. Often newbies suspect that the break angle is the key , when in fact it has little to do with the energy transfer to the top.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
bluescreek wrote:
that is not too horribly high you may have some bad bone. You may have the holes too close to the saddle. Often newbies suspect that the break angle is the key , when in fact it has little to do with the energy transfer to the top.



Yes , I believe the Holes are to close , that's why i'm thinking about moving them .

Attachment:
100_1833.jpg


This will give a better idea of how close they are and why I am contemplating moving them .
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
you may solve that problem.. You need to fix the plate. I would pull the bridge plug the holes make the new bridge and reset.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
If I were looking to sell this guitar I might do that . Being that its the first build Its a keeper . I ordered Ebony Bridge pins unslotted . Im thinking about glueing them in and re-drilling the holes back a bit . I really don't want to pull the bridge plate .

Thanks for the advice .
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Hmm, either way is a pain... but I suppose filling the holes is a one-off, and making an in-place saddle routing jig you'd have it around incase you ever need it again, so I'd probably route it out. I like my saddles at least 1/8" anyway, for better intonation of the B string, and more contact area on all of them by rounding over the back edge of the saddle so the strings curve smoothly over it rather than having a sharp crimp.

I bet you could liven up the guitar by planing off some of that bridge's belly too. Looks quite heavy, especially being ebony. But on the other hand, being your first guitar, it's kind of nice to have its original voice preserved for future comparing to how far you've come :)
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
When you have your correct setup at the 12th fret how high are the strings above the top at the bridge??? Also, how thick is your bridge??
Tom
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Tom West wrote:
When you have your correct setup at the 12th fret how high are the strings above the top at the bridge???
Tom


Right now the top of the bridge and the frets are level , so if I have .120 at 12th fret I am a Strong .1875 above bridge ... Like I said , neck set isnt exactly correct "first guitar " so Im simply trying to improve the angle and saddle without taking it apart .
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Sorry, you did not answer the question. Looking for string height over the top at the bridge.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Tom West wrote:
Sorry, you did not answer the question. Looking for string height over the top at the bridge.

.1875 +
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Big: Not sure you are getting the jest of my question. The distance measured from the string to the top just before the bridge. This gives a sence of the state of the neck angle. Not looking for the height of the fret plane over the bridge which I think you are quoting. Also how thick is your bridge?
Tom
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Was giving you measurements from top of bridge to bottom of string at bridge , The measurement from top of guitar to bottom of strings I would have to check , However I made the neck with a 2 degree angle at the body joint .
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Big: The reason for the question is that your bridge looks quite thick to me,couple that with a high saddle and your problem may be with the set of the neck. The location of your holes in your bridge don't look too far out of place to me. On narrow bridges my holes have been at least that close. A bit of a steep angle but certainly works OK.
Tom
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Todd splanes it better then I can...........!!
Tom
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Tom West wrote:
Big: The reason for the question is that your bridge looks quite thick to me,couple that with a high saddle and your problem may be with the set of the neck. The location of your holes in your bridge don't look too far out of place to me. On narrow bridges my holes have been at least that close. A bit of a steep angle but certainly works OK.
Tom



Thanks Tom , I know the set of the neck is off. I don't want to reset it . from the top to bottom of the strings is probably .6875 So I'm at least 3/16" to high . Trying to devise a simpler fix than neck reset or Bridge rework that will keep the saddle from breaking . and lessen the break angle to relieve stress on the saddle .

Todd . orig I had the string height at .090 / .085 "approx" and it played well , but got fret buzz so I raised it , Obviously to much . Thanks for the string height reference , I will work it in to those numbers and see what i have .
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
those numbers mean you NEED TO RESET THE NECK. You will find the guitar may even sound better. You can over stress the top and that can lock up the top. I would ask what the distance from the saddle the holes are , as I have seen them too close but for now that is just too much neck angle. With lowering that the saddle may need to be set farther back .
Author:  nyazzip [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Quote:
those numbers mean you NEED TO RESET THE NECK

yup. just from the first picture this is obvious- the bridge saddle is a good 3-5mm too high above the bridge itself.....just got to accept it that the neck angle is too extreme, for a flat top guitar, that is.
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Some of the figures you are giving are not adding up

"Right now the top of the bridge and the frets are level , so if I have .120 at 12th fret I am a Strong .1875 above bridge ... Like I said , neck set isnt exactly correct "first guitar " so Im simply trying to improve the angle and saddle without taking it apart ."

It is often recommended that a straightedge along the fret surface rest just on top of the bridge, which is what you say yours is doing.
see http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musicia ... angle.html

Before you do anything drastic, I would restring it, check nut height, set relief and then adjust saddle height as Todd suggested earlier to a lower action height.
Then and only then, check string height from soundboard to underside of strings
A 1/8 saddle would certainly cope better regardless.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Checked my relief : I have a Back bow of .010 unstrung ...... so I'm .015 to .018
the wrong way . I'm going to work on that issue and see what I can do to get the relief fixed .
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bone Saddle Breaking
Todd Stock wrote:
WudWerkr wrote:
Checked my relief : I have a Back bow of .010 unstrung ...... so I'm .015 to .018
the wrong way . I'm going to work on that issue and see what I can do to get the relief fixed .


Check relief with guitar strung to tension...relief unstrung is not going to matter.



Nods .
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/