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| Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38182 |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Despite living in New Zealand, this is my first guitar made from that mythical wood known as "Ancient Kauri" (Agathis australis). The logs are extracted from swamp lands in the north of New Zealand where, according to carbon dating studies, they fell and became submerged in the muck some 30,000 to 50,000 years ago. This is the oldest known workable wood in the world. For clients, I've been sticking to woods that I know and have a feel for. This Ancient Kauri OM was an experiment that started when I made contact with the resident artist at the Ancient Kauri Kingdom and told him I was interested in some wood with exceptional figure. I resawed 4 sets from the timber he selected for me, and I confess that after various trials and oops moments meant that I now only have enough for two more, and a bunch of headplates. AK dents easily and marks are telegraphed deep into the fibres. It machines well, but doesn't like edge tools, so thank God I have a thickness sander. It also stains very easily -- don't go near it with CA unless you've sealed it with shellac. To be quite honest, it reminds me a bit of MDF! But the figure known as "white bait swimming in waves" is indeed spectacular. I've attached some photos here, but frankly my camera skills don't do justive to the wood -- it's even more stunning in person. Sound? Well, I gave it one of my best tops and braced it on the light side. It is certainly responsive, but I would describe the sound as warm, not bright. It sounds "big". I still need to intonate the saddle and make the nut look pretty, and we'll see how the tone develops after a bit of playing. Fingerboard, bridge, bindings, heel cap and back strap are all Madagascar rosewood. Neck is Honduras mahogany, bracing is Sitka, shell inlays are Paua (top purfling is Zipflex). Thanks for looking. |
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| Author: | nyazzip [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
...you'd think if it was in a swamp for forty thousand years, the sides should bend easily enough!  very cool. does the wood have any scent at all? and what would you compare it to as far as stiffness/hardness? i only first heard of kauri a few years ago. i don't believe in any of the voodoo, i just think the history of and preservation process is interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU2vcYuu ... r_embedded |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Very nice! Posted using two tin cans and some string. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
That is very nice, I love the white bait figure. Did the material harden up a bit after epoxy? (assuming that you pore filled with such). Mike |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
nyazzip wrote: ...you'd think if it was in a swamp for forty thousand years, the sides should bend easily enough! very cool. does the wood have any scent at all? and what would you compare it to as far as stiffness/hardness? i only first heard of kauri a few years ago. i don't believe in any of the voodoo, i just think the history of and preservation process is interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU2vcYuu ... r_embedded This stuff bends very easily, with essentially no spring back. Like most southern hemisphere gynosperms, the odour is very subtle and not particularly distinctive. Stiffness/hardness? Not very. Thanks for the link to the video. Ancient Wood is the US arm of the Ancient Kauri Kingdom in New Zealand -- they're much more organised for selling to woodworkers than are the folks down under. I guess my advantage was I could go to the source itself and select some rather extraordinary pieces. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Mike O'Melia wrote: That is very nice, I love the white bait figure. Did the material harden up a bit after epoxy? (assuming that you pore filled with such). Mike Nope, no pore fill -- it's a gymnosperm -- similar in structure to cypress. While there are no vessels as such, the cell walls in this ancient wood have broken down somewhat so that it has become very absorbent. If you did put epoxy on this stuff, it would stain the wood and the stain would go deep. If you put CA on a piece 100 thou thick, it shoots clear to the other side and leaves an ugly stain -- ask how I know! That is actually the third headplate on this guitar. The first was ruined when I forgot to seal the cavity before flooding the inlay with CA -- the exposed endgrain soaked up the CA and looked ugly. The second was glued on with epoxy, which under clamping pressure forced itself through the thickness of the headplate and turned ugly. For the third, I was careful to get a good glue surface after milling off the second headplate, used Titebond as adhesive (stains much less than epoxy), and remembered to seal the inlay cavity with shellac before flooding with CA. Lots of ways to stain this wood -- shellac is your friend. I wouldn't hesitate to build more guitars with Ancient Kauri, and have 2 more sets from that spectacular billet, but the first was a learning experience. |
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| Author: | LaurieW [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
That's a great looking guitar. Really appreciate the tips, I have a few sets myself. What wood combo is next? |
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| Author: | Quine [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Very classy looking guitar! I hope it lasts another few millenniums |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
I first saw a Kauri guitar built by New Zealand luthier Laurie Williams at the first Newport Guitar Festival. Great guy, and great guitars. Nice to know I have a (very) distant relative who is building guitars across the planet from me. Love the wood on yours Tim! Wish I had a few sets, but as it is I have way too much wood and am planning on selling off a lot of it soon. |
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| Author: | RNRoberts [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Tim, Spectacular guitar and a big wow on the curl and white bait of your wood selection. Definitely one to be proud of. Your description of the wood's characteristics sure fits with what I found as well. I've so far only used it once, but this is a great wood for a guitar that would be mainly for eye candy on display and won't see much use, but definitely not for on the road. My board was also extremely soft (think balsawood). Structurally it was totally inappropriate for back and sides. At the thickness for back and sides it would chip off similar to if you had a thin crosscut piece of balsa and and chipped off pieces. I ended up laminating it to Osage Orange to deal with the lack of structural integrity. I used epoxy to laminate, and had no problems with it bleeding through to the surface, but my board did not have the degree of runout exhibited by yours. To deal with the softness of the outer face, I first tried epoxy, but it markedly darkened the wood and killed the beautiful chatoyance that is found in it, Koa, and Aust. Blackwood and which is the main spectacular feature of the wood. So I sanded and scraped down through all of that and tried thin CA (three bottles). Even bigger mistake. Dramatically darkened the wood and again killed the chatoyance even worse. Again sanded and scraped this off to virgin wood, sweating like a pig that I would hit the neon yellow of the underlying Osage before getting the CA off. (jeez, ever heard of "test on scrap"?) Ended with giving up and just french polishing. This wood definitely benefits from sanding down through finer grit than you usually would, and I ended up taking it to MicroMesh 8000 and then the shellac. On the up side, I don't think I've ever seen such a beautiful result from what starts out looking like a pretty bland board. And the back story of tens of thousands of years in a peat bog is hard to beat for uniqueness. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Thanks for all the tips. Where can I buy Kauri in billet form with good figure? It soaked through 100 thou? That's a tenth of an inch! The base thickness a lot of us work with. That is amazing. Mike |
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| Author: | RNRoberts [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
I obtained mine from Bob Teisberg at Ancientwoods. Nice guy, knows this wood and I think is the primary importer for North America. He ended up sending me a board he had hidden behind his office door. www.ancientwood.com/ |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Yeah, this guitar deserves it... Dang. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
As mentioned earlier, http://www.ancientwood.com is the American arm of the Ancient Kauri Kingdom (AKK), the main New Zealand processor of Ancient Kauri. They also have a website specifically for tonewood: http://ancienttonewood.com/. Also, David Freeman at Timeless Instruments (forum sponsor) http://www.timelessinstruments.com/ is importing Ancient Kauri billets direct from the source at AKK, and his prices on guitar sets are unbeatable. David saw the wood I had a couple of years ago when he was doing his course in New Zealand, and immediately went to pay AKK a visit to arrange a supply to his business in Saskatchewan. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
RNRoberts wrote: This wood definitely benefits from sanding down through finer grit than you usually would, and I ended up taking it to MicroMesh 8000 and then the shellac. Yes, something I forgot to mention. It's as if the scratches from "normal" grits are telegraphed deep into the wood, so prep for finish does require a lot of care and taking up to a very high grit to remove visible scratches and develop the chatoyance. I sealed with dewaxed shellac, followed by top coats of single-pack pre-catalysed lacquer. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ancient Kauri and Sitka OM |
Don Williams wrote: ... but as it is I have way too much wood and am planning on selling off a lot of it soon. *dang* Steve P.s.--fine guitar Tim! |
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