I am also set up to do it both ways, but I prefer the bender, if you can call what I use a bender!
Check out the second page of my challange build, it's got photos of my cheapy bender and how I use it in conjunction with a repurposed clothes iron.
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| What side bending method do you use? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38174 |
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| Author: | Leftyprs [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What side bending method do you use? |
Im getting prepared to start my first build, and I wondered what side bending method you use? Obviously there are pros and cons to each method. I planned on buying a side bending machine from the usual suspects, but now I'm tempted to go with a bending iron to avoid having to build & store multiple forms for different body shapes etc. I'm sure this method has a greater learning curve, but is it really that much more difficult? It seams that once you have some experience with the bending iron it would be easier to avoid cracking more expensive species because your hands would have a better feel for the amount of tension you're putting on a stubborn piece that doesn't want to give. Thoughts? Thanks, Brad |
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| Author: | jackwilliams [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
as simple as a bending machine can be to build...and even if you utilize light bulbs as a heat source for your first few builds, I would strongly suggest the bending machine over a bending iron.... |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
It depends one how many different shapes you plan to make. Yes you need many temps. for a side bending machine. But none for hand bending. try bending some scraps(hot pipe) to see if you get the feel for it. If it scares ya or does not feel right-go with the machine. I do both because I make 6 different shapes. Mike |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
It depends one how many different shapes you plan to make. Yes you need many temps. for a side bending machine. But none for hand bending. try bending some scraps(hot pipe) to see if you get the feel for it. If it scares ya or does not feel right-go with the machine. I do both because I make 6 different shapes. Mike |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I use a hot pipe for a lot of the reasons you mention, versatility, space, etc. Plus I love the feel and the smell. It is still very easy to crack wood when bending it and scorching and staining can be problematic. The Fox style bender has an edge in speed and precision. In the end it comes down to your approach and philosophy toward the work. A question I always like to provoke apprentices in the cabinet shop with is whether they are woodworkers or if they work with wood? Answer that and you will find most of the other answers quite readily. |
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| Author: | Robert Hosmer [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
Started with a hot pipe; stepped up to a blanket. More than likely due to lack of patience, but I'm just not good enough with the pipe alone. Sure, I can get better, and will through time, but for now I'm just not comfortable using the pipe on the expensive stuff. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I'd say you're less likely to crack it in a fox bender. As you wiggle the blocks towards the ends there's good support as you go with the slats. Likely faster and more consistant. It only takes 15 minutes to make a pattern, and if you wanted to you could collapse them afterwards for easy storage... |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I have both but use the bending iron because I just like it better. If I had to knock out a bunch of the same shape then I would get my fox-type bender back out. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I am set up to do both but I prefer the hot pipe for several reasons. If you are just starting out, hand bending is a skill that you should acquire anyway, you may want to add a cutaway someday and not have to significantly alter our bender to do it. I like the feel of hand bending and always do it that way, it is nice to be able to bend a side close then cook it in the bender to get the shape perfect. If don’t learn to bend by hand, you may be reluctant to try new shapes. For the current challenge I didn’t feel like taking the time to set up my bender to do that particular shape (and it was going to require some hand work anyway). It was nice to be able to bend and move on. Now if I were in production of a handful of models and/or trying to make money doing this, I would be all about the bender and try to limit the amount of reasons to drag out the pipe. |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I am also set up to do it both ways, but I prefer the bender, if you can call what I use a bender! Check out the second page of my challange build, it's got photos of my cheapy bender and how I use it in conjunction with a repurposed clothes iron. |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I've only bent a couple of sides (on the pipe) and found relatively straightforward (it was eirw - a wonderful tactile experience). The linings (mahogany and spruce) were a tad more difficult and the bindings were tricky stuff (hard to keep the small strips of wood aligned) - anyway, after you do it you get a wonderful sense of accomplishment and valuable experience, I highly recommend it! And it's cheap... Good luck, Miguel. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
mqbernardo wrote: ! And it's cheap... I knew I liked it for some other reason! 
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| Author: | crich [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
For the same reasons above, you should learn to bend on a pipe. You're always going to have to touch up a side or binding down the road anyways. I'm always experimenting and am glad I learned to bend on the pipe. Myself I decided a few years back to go real lazy and stopped building forms! Clinton |
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| Author: | Quine [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I started with a blanket and a bending form. Now I use a hot pipe. I really like bending by hand and having no forms to make and store...I'm just a hobby one-off builder. If I were to go into production with standard body shapes, I'd probably go back to the bending machine |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
If you are going to use an outside type mold to build in, you are going to end up with 2 off cuts, the inside, that will make your bending form. I just spent the other day working on a 16" guitar of my own shape. It took most of a day to come up with the shape, plexi template and outside mold. It took less than 1 hour to make the bending form from the off cuts. I have a pipe and use it for touch ups, and maybe it's just me but I seem to use a lot of water when I bend on a pipe. I'd just as soon introduce as little water as possible. OK, that's probably BS. It's just way stinkin' easier and faster.  Have Fun, Danny |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I take your point Danny; but on my current project I made a mold, had the cutouts right there and still bent on the pipe in less time than I would have taken to complete the bending form. Though if I make this shape again. . . |
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| Author: | mhammond [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I have used a hot pipe for 50+ instruments simply because I enjoy the tactile sensations derived from feeling the wood comply to my wishes. Its a very simple thing, yet very satisfying to feel like a real honest to goodness old school luthier. Try it you'll like it.... Mikey |
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| Author: | Spyder [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
As a first time guitar maker myself, I've been amazed at how much money I have spent so far on this project. In tools, wood, and supplies, some stuff gets used and some gets tossed aside as I work my way through this and find out what works for me and what doesn't. At this point, I just can't justify the cost of the blanket. So I have been bending on my cheapie hot pipe, with pretty good results. Yeah, big learning curve, but very satisfying when you finally get it right. And the more practice I get, the faster it goes. And, you can't beat it for fine tuning a shape before glue-up. |
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| Author: | nkforster [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
This is how I do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jf8J6rt6ng I've a couple of other videos showing it from different angles which may be of help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NMxMO93v8s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm420mtesnU nigel http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/ |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
Fox style bender with slats and blanket controlled with a PID loop controller. I bend some binding with it but the brittle ones like Ebony on an bending iron. Fred |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
most with a bending machine but agree learning to bend by hand is not a bad thing . Remember that 80% of successful bending is wood selection. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
Bending on a hot pipe for me is one of the more fun and rewarding things to do building a guitar. I can get it done pretty fast too. So yeah, I like the hot pipe method. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
bluescreek wrote: Remember that 80% of successful bending is wood selection. +1 |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
I would recommend that you build the side bender for your first build and avoid doing a cut away. There are hundreds of places to make mistakes building a guitar and you will find many of them. Building a bender is pretty easy and your likelihood of success is much greater. If you have trouble bending on a pipe you may find the whole project to be discouraging. I agree with some of the previous posters that wood selection is the key to side bending. I know several teachers who only use East Indian Rosewood because it bends so easily and that increases the chance of success. You might want to consider starting with that. Successfully completing your first instrument is the best way to keep your interest up. From your original posts it sounds like you are expecting to be making more than one guitar. So, you really need to learn how to use a pipe eventually. You might consider getting some practice sides. I don't recall if it is StewMac or LMI that sells sides just to practice on but you might want to get a few and try the pipe. That way you don't have to worry about cracking or kinking the only side wood that you have. If I screw up a side, I can just go to my stash and pick out another set but there was a time when I had to buy my scrap wood. Why do you need to learn how to use a pipe when you have a bender? Sometimes a side may relax a bit after it is taken off the bender and you want to touch it up before you put them in your mold. I learned because I made a mandolin and couldn't use the bender for that because the tear drop shape doesn't have a waist. Many cut away adapters for side bending machines are more trouble than their worth. As you can see from some of the previous posts, many builders enjoy the process. I don't particularly but I can do it if I need to. |
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| Author: | Leftyprs [ Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What side bending method do you use? |
Thanks for all the responses and suggestions. I'm going to start off with the bending iron and go from there. Does anyone know a good place to buy one? I know several places offer them, just wondered if anyone has had better luck with a certain retailer's product. Also, for those of you who use a bending iron do you use spring steel slats on either side of the wood while bending? Thanks |
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