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Challenge from a chair maker
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38034		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Leanu [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Challenge from a chair maker
Greetings all!

I have been making great progress lately on my first build, a mandolele from Walnut and Sitka, and have started gathering materials and such for my next build. I did the first free form, and am thinking of trying a different method on the guitar I will be building.

My question stems from a challenge presented to me by the chair-maker whos shop I am using. In a conversation about tonewoods, I mentioned that most of the wood I was using was from South America and Africa, and he challenged me to make an instrument out of woods harvested locally (I'm in Montana, and could use woods from the Northwest, but all have to be grown in the states). So my question is what wood would I be able to substitute in the neck? I have built 3 necks already (my mandolele and 2 guitar necks) out of mahogany and won't be able to use those.

Also, I was laughing about the thread "10 Revolutionary Ideas for Making Money in Luthiery". That was pretty good stuff and I'm sure we've all seen the wood for sale on eBay. So my question here is: is there a supplier anyone knows of that has good, quality tonewoods for a low low price that a newcomer like myself could by and not be afraid to screw up? I have found some inexpensive soundboards for smaller instruments that turned out to be of exceptional quality. I just can't spend hundreds of $$ for tonewood at this point. I don't need master-grade wood, I don't think that it would benefit my instruments right now anyway!

Thanks in advance for your replies!!
Author:  douglas ingram [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Local woods are discussed here pretty regularly, check with a topic search. If you are keen on using woods local to your area, what are they? How local will you cast your net? There are plenty of options for the creative and patient, craftsman (or just crazy).
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Have used both walnut and cherry and have had no issues with either one .
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
You could build the whole guitar out of walnut ... bind it in maple, maple FB
Author:  Clinchriver [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Here is a local wood guitar, quarter sawn White Oak, back & sides, walnut, kerf strips, neck & tail block, Face plate overlay, Persimmon fret board. All cut in Anderson County Tennessee,
Author:  cphanna [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Walnut is a beautiful and much appreciated tonewood and it makes great necks, too. I'd think that if all northwest woods are available to you, then your choice of top woods is very open. Would your challenger accept the Alaska coast as northwest? (Seems pretty northwest to me, from my perspective down here in central Missouri.) If so, you can shop and order top wood with confidence from this supplier: http://alaskawoods.com/

Brent harvests in a very "green" way. You can read about that on his site. He is prompt in shipment, and he is very responsive to emails, etc. He knows his woods and he grades them very realistically. His prices are extremely reasonable. I've been delighted to the extreme with sitka spruce from this supplier.

Now...if you challenger won't accept Alaska as being within your range, then I'll just watch this thread to find out about some other cool suppliers out there.

By the way, I think chairs in general are a woodworking challenge equal to guitars. No one expects them to sound a certain way, but everyone expects them to bear up under a GREAT deal of stress. There are few things more difficult than building a really good chair. Musical instruments are among those very few things. ...or at least EQUALLY difficult.

Go for it.

Patrick
Author:  John Arnold [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Quote:
My question stems from a challenge presented to me by the chair-maker whose shop I am using.

Since you are using his shop, I would refrain from speaking the truth....that chair-making is a lot easier than guitar-making :roll:

You didn't specifically ask about soundboards, but there is Engelmann from Idaho, and Sitka from Washington state.
For necks and bodies, you can use bigleaf maple or walnut.....both grow in Oregon.
I have built a few all domestic guitars, and they are just as good (if not better) than guitars made with tropical woods.
My current favorite domestic wood for fingerboards and bridges is Texas ebony, from the southern tip of Texas.
If you include all the States, the choices are much more diverse: cherry, red spruce, Eastern black walnut, sugar maple, red maple, sassafras, black locust, Osage orange, persimmon, basswood, white oak, etc., etc.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
And Myrtle for bodies.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Earlier this year I played a guitar in Cumpiano's shop that I believe was sycamore back/sides and a sycamore neck (spruce top, of course). I don't see any reason why hickory couldn't be used as a fingerboard (as well as hard maple, of course). Both sycamore and hickory are slightly more stable than maple, I believe....a bit less so than mahogany. They're also a novel choice compared to boring old maple, IMHO. I also see no reason why you couldn't make the whole thing out of maple (with a spruce or pine top), just like most archtops.

Honestly, other than mahogany and limba, which are unusually stable, I've always kind of wondered just exactly why we tend to use so many imported woods when perfectly fine and beautiful wood grows right here.
Author:  Leanu [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
John Arnold wrote:
Quote:
My question stems from a challenge presented to me by the chair-maker whose shop I am using.

Since you are using his shop, I would refrain from speaking the truth....that chair-making is a lot easier than guitar-making :roll:


The chairs that he makes are Windsor style, and after seeing the craftmanship and attention to detail that goes into making one of those, I can truly appreciate the difficulty! That being said, if I am putting that much work into a project I am glad I chose instruments. It is equally as frustrating, but somehow seems a bit more glamorus. But to quote from Caddyshack, "The world needs ditch-diggers, too!"
Author:  Leanu [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
These are all great suggestions, thanks for the input! I think, if I make a smaller sized instrument, I might go with the walnut neck with a walnut body, something about that intrigues me.

When I make my own guitar, I will definitely be doing the Myrtle. Everyone really seems to enjoy that wood.

cphanna wrote:
Brent harvests in a very "green" way.


Not sure how you read my post and drew this out of it, but that was the exact conversation we were having when the "challenge" was made!
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Clinchriver wrote:
Here is a local wood guitar, quarter sawn White Oak, back & sides, walnut, kerf strips, neck & tail block, Face plate overlay, Persimmon fret board. All cut in Anderson County Tennessee,

Nice! I am building a white oak guitar right now as part of the OLF 2012 challenge build. It's really beautiful wood.
Author:  brazil66 [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
So...who is the Chairmaker? Just curious.

www.rakeandsplay.com

Chairmaking can be way easier than Guitarmaking.....or not.


M.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
What is local to you guys is exotic to people in other locations. However we have stuff that would be considered exotic by you guys too. If you lived in Africa, Mahogany and ebony would be local wood.
Author:  grumpy [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
+1 to what Tai Fu just wrote. Exotic and local are what they are to each individual.

I had a supplier come-by to visit(and show me some new goodies to sell, of course) once, and that evening, we built a little fire outside and sat around enjoying a few beer and swapping lies. After a while, he asked what I was burning, and I said "red spruce", as I grabbed another chunk and tossed it in. He gasped!, Looked-over to the wood pile and said that was a ton of violin tops and guitar bracewood that I was burning! I agreed, but also pointed to the shop where I have a lifetime's supply of bracewood, and since I build few fiddles... Then I said, "look around you, and what do you see? Spruce trees, as far as the eye can see, and then some..."

I have an uncle who was born in New Brunswick, and when I showed him a highly figured, expensive and prized bird's eye maple mandolin set, he shrugged and said he hated the stuff. "Ever try to split that <insert common name for excrement>, he asked? Sure, it burns good and hot, but it's a <insert name of female dog> to split!" He then said that even learned to recognize bird's eye by swiping some bark off the tree, and if it was loaded with them, they wouldn't even cut it! Yup, they burn bids eye maple down yonder.... Wasn't overly prized firewood, either!
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Challenge from a chair maker
Lots of useless woods in Taiwan, except for a few suppliers selling hardwood from SE Asia. Lots of Paulownia which is useless for anything (way too soft, like balsa) but makes great blackpowder from its charcoal. The Lauan is about the most useless wood I have ever seen. Splits easily, feels like paper, and splinters almost like Wenge. I doubt it makes good charcoal either. I think they put chemicals into those wood because they smell like MDF when burnt.
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