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| Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38003 |
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
I'm considering using Pratt & Lambert #38 for the finish on the 00 I'm building. I haven't #38 locally but I can order online without HazMat fees on shipping so that's an option. Would some of you that have used it mind sharing your finishing schedule? Also, what you used to thin it and how much you thinned it would be wecome info. I will be spraying the finish, not brushing, if that helps with your suggestions. I will likely use Zpoxy as the pore filler but wouldn't mind hearing what you have used for pore filling under #38. If I have no other info, I have Woody's excellent video on finishing with the Shermin Williams Fast Drying Varnish and I'll use that as guidance (adjusted for possibly different drying times). Thanks! |
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| Author: | George L [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
Darryl, I haven't sprayed any finishes, but after trying a few different approaches to brushing/wiping on P&L #38, I would say that the best results I've achieved to date came after pore filling with Timbermate and then following Woody's schedule. I sealed the bare wood with Zinsser Seal Coat shellac, pore filled, sealed again with the Zinsser shellac, then started with the varnish. Keep in mind that I've only made five instruments, so I am NOT an expert. Practice on scrap. :-) |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
As with any varnish, its basically apply, sand, apply, sand, repeat till satisfied. A few points: -practice on scrap -dust is the enemy -your first coat is applied very thin, basically as a sealer. With some varnishes you can go 50% thinner first coat. -next two coats almost as thin to start building a base, maybe thin 25%. -apply thin coats so that the finish builds as flat as possible. Its easier to level a flat, thin, coat than it is to level a thick, uneven coat. -It is very easy to get sags and runs if applied too heavy, and "holidays" if too skimpy -allow to dry at least 24 hours between coats -sand with nothing coarser than 220 grit. 360 is pretty good if your surface is flat. -use a soft bristle brush for good flow out and even application. Maybe go to an art supply store to see what they have. -have good lighting. -once very dry and hard, you can sand and polish if you like, or just live with what you've got. You can spray varnish, but it stays wet in the air for a long time, not really worth it. PL 38 is a forgiving varnish with good flow out, you should be pretty happy with the results. |
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| Author: | David LaPlante [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
Thanks very much Doug for sharing your regimen....a big help! I'm working on a project now which I think might be right for this finish. As you may know, I recently bought the remains of Manouk Papazian's shop and included were a number of un-assembled parts some of which I'm now putting together to make a Papazian style guitar (really superb old Brazilian rosewood and European hazelficte spruce). He used, from all reports, a varnish finish of some sort and his guitars do show a heavier film of finish than if they were French polished, and it does not appear to be lacquer. Some of his instruments that we've been working on lately (see the thread over on DelCamp) are definitely a violin type spirit varnish (orange shellac basically) but his finer guitars have a clearer finish, most likely varnish. Question: is P&L #38 water clear or does it impart some color toning to the wood? Thanks! |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
There was a recent thread covering the different clarity properties of the favorite varnishes. Can't remember where it was, though. I thought it was in the P&L/Sherman Williams thread, but no! |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
P&L 38 is pretty clear. I used up my local supply so haven't used any for a little while. I have been using Epiphanes spar varnish as I buy liters and liters of the stuff for use on my canoes and paddles. I like the slight amber colour that it imparts, especially to pale woods such as maple and spruce. Too clear of a finish on those woods makes it feel sterile to me. Epiphanes is a varnish that is supplied thick in the can and is expected to be thinned appropriate to the application. I opened up an older can of Interlux "Super Spar", it had an even deeper amber colour that is nice in the right context. It took longer to dry, too, much longer. If you want some of the varnish colour, you can try using a deeper colour varnish as your sealer coat, the build with P&L 38. I should have added earlier that you should have your varnish room warmed up to the mid 20's C. Too cool and it flows on like syrup, too warm and doesn't flow out as well. You don't want your varnish to dry too fast or it doesn't self level as your brush strokes level out. This is also why you want it thin enough to apply flat and you want a brush that doesn't leave large bristle ridges. |
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| Author: | David LaPlante [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
Doug, I see that there are a number of products here: https://epifanes.com/na/store/varnishes ... -finishes/ Is the one that you are using the first one at the top of the page? |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
David LaPlante wrote: Doug, I see that there are a number of products here: https://epifanes.com/na/store/varnishes ... -finishes/ Is the one that you are using the first one at the top of the page? Yep. "Clear Varnish" Its a very different animal from the other products. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
There was a thread not too long ago that compared the colors of the different varnishes; P&L, Sherwin Williams, Epiphanes, and Ace. I don't have time to do a search but that thread had pictures of each varnish I think on Spruce. You should be able to find it if you do a search. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
I found it and I don't know how to link to it. The topic title is "Traditional Cabinetmakers Varnish" from April 29, 2011. Laurent Brondel posted a picture of 4 guitars, each in a different varnish. Wish I knew how to link to it.\ Wendy OOPS, sorry, wrong varnishes. Just the Epiphanes, Ace, and Rockhard. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
Wendy, When you hit "new reply" your regular reply window will open up. There is a row of buttons across the top, at the far right, just beside "font size", is a button called URL. Write your text, then identify where you want to post your link. Then hit the URL button. It will open up a parenthesis, copy and then paste your url in-between the parenthesis. It will look like this: http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32029&hilit=+Traditional+Cabinetmakers+Varnish+ |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32029 Thanks Doug, but I realized it is not the same varnishes. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
Nothing about P&L 38 but lots of good info nonetheless. And you learned how to post a link! I forgot to mention. Epiphanes does have specialized thinners available, however I use good old turpentine. It works just fine and the scent of it reminds me of art school painting studios. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pratt & Lambert #38 Finishing Schedule |
I've never used P&L 38. I believe someone said it was slightly darker than Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Oil Varnish in antoher thread. Here's the same guitar before, and after SW varnish.   Darryl, I believe you can use P&L38 with a schedule similar to mine. Just thin it until it's the consistancy you like to apply, and give it enough time between coats so you can scuff it. Measure at the soundhole to see how much build you're getting. |
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