Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Stainless Steel frets advice

I think standard fretwire isn't worth the grief! The stuff wears, and you only ever have a "perfect" fret job for a little while. Then the wear comes into play again...

SS frets aren't a big deal to work with, and in many ways, are even -easier- to install. And once done, you're done. Beautiful, smooth, level frets, for decades, if not for life. I changed-over to SS frets in 2005 without charging a cent more, and without putting-up a notice that I was using the stuff. I tried it, found it far superior, and I aim to use, and offer, the best of everything I can find. A no-brainer decision to me...

Honestly, if you take a bit more care in prepping the fretboard to minimize the amount of leveling you'll need to do(and you should be doing this anyhow, but because standard frets are so easy to level, I promise you you're not taking the fretboard prep as far as you can/should), then the rest is gravy.

Author:	John Coloccia [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:03 am ]
Post subject:	Stainless Steel frets advice
A customer just called looking for a stainless steel refret. I haven't done a whole lot with stainless steel. Any advice for working with this stuff for the first time?

Author:	woody b [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I have better luck when I bend it pretty close to the actual radius, instead of overbending.

Author:	John Coloccia [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I may try something different on this refret. I think I might try cutting to exactly length, pre shaping/polishing the fret ends, and then installing. IMHO, the biggest pain is dealing with the fret ends without bruising the wood.

Author:	TRein [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I have done one re-fret with SS frets and the learning curve is very high. If doing another, (which I hope never to do!) I'd rig up some kind of mini chop saw to cut the frets to nearly the exact length before installation. I believe you are on the right track to do as much shaping off of the fingerboard as possible. It might be a bit tricky to insure the frets don't shift a bit from one side to another, especially on a re-fret where the barbs would tend to follow the dents made in the slot from the previous frets.

Author:	B. Howard [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I think you're asking for trouble cutting them too close to the finished dimension, gonna wind up short here and there as they will shift slightly when put in. I agree with getting the radius as close as possible, but you still need a marginal overbend so they'll seat properly and stay down at the ends. I buy a new file for my tool I use to file the fret ends flush and to do the bevel. A little chalk on the files will help them cut better. Fretboard prep should be attended very closely as the less leveling and hence crowning you need to do after install the happier you will be. Stainless frets are just more work, take more time and are a bit harder on tools.

Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Stainless Steel frets advice http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37950	Page 1 of 1

Author:	grumpy [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
First, the SS fretwire isn't _THAT_ much harder than std. fretwire. So, the first thing to do is brush away the fears and pre-conceived notions. Honestly, that's 90% of the battle right there. I've been using SS exclusively since 2005, and I haven't yet worn out any files, and even my now 13 year old StewMac fret tang nipper hasn't complained or show extra wear. I did invest in the largest side cutters I could find, and if my wrists are sore, I'll cut them to length(overlength, always) with a angle grinder and fine SS cutting disk(IE: "zip disks"). Agree that you do want to radius the wire to the same radius as the fretboard, and prep the fretboard carefully. Very carefully, so that you have a minimal amount of leveling to do. And yeah, if you care to, it's not a bad idea to cut them to exact length, and it's not impossible, as many luthiers do it with any fretwire(methinks Fleishman was the one who introduced semi-hemispherical fret ends some ten or so years ago). But what's even easier and a bit more forgiving, yet makes filing the ends WAY faster and easier(and safer) is to undercut the fret tang, as you would for a bound fretboard, even if it's not a bound fretboard. Then carefully trim them to just a wee bit extra in length, and you'll have very little filing to do.

Author:	John Coloccia [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I almost always undercut my tangs unless a customer really just likes the look of the tangs or I'm doing a partial refret and need to match. So the StewMac tang nippers are OK on stainless? I thought they didn't work well. I was going to pick up the LMII tang filing jig thingy, but it's backordered. I thought I was going to have to do them to old fashioned way....two cuts with end nippers and file away the rest. Even if I only got 5 jobs out of the tang nippers, they're only $50 each. I could just charge an extra $5 for stainless and be done with it. Too bad they don't seem to sell replacement cutters.

Author:	murrmac [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I wonder if the modern day Stewmac Fret tang nippers are of inferior quality to those sold 13 years ago, because they specifically state that all their fretting tools are suitable for use on stainless steel with the exception of the Fret Tang Nippers

Author:	John Coloccia [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I think what I'm going to do is refret my Ibanez Satriani model with stainless for practice and we'll see how it goes.

Author:	grumpy [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I can't say if the new nippers are better or worse than the older ones, as I've never had to replace mine. I bought it in '98 or '99.... And yes, it doesn't flinch at all with the SS. And yes, a bit of practice won't hurt...

Author:	ChuckB [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I use the Stew Mac nippers too on stainless steel frets without any problems. Mine are a couple years old, so fairly recent. I used the Harbor Freight modified nippers for years on stainless also. They worked fine, but didn't cut as clean as I wanted, so I broke down and bought the Stew Mac nippers. They cut cleaner, but I still need to touch up with a file. Chuck

Author:	JSDenvir [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
Are SS frets really worth all the grief? Thanks in advance Steve

Author:	John Coloccia [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
JSDenvir wrote: Are SS frets really worth all the grief? Thanks in advance Steve IMHO, I don't think they are. I have customers that do, though. I've been turning them away, but I'm tired of turning away customers because they want SS. I just can't afford to give away that business.

Author:	grumpy [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I think standard fretwire isn't worth the grief! The stuff wears, and you only ever have a "perfect" fret job for a little while. Then the wear comes into play again... SS frets aren't a big deal to work with, and in many ways, are even -easier- to install. And once done, you're done. Beautiful, smooth, level frets, for decades, if not for life. I changed-over to SS frets in 2005 without charging a cent more, and without putting-up a notice that I was using the stuff. I tried it, found it far superior, and I aim to use, and offer, the best of everything I can find. A no-brainer decision to me... Honestly, if you take a bit more care in prepping the fretboard to minimize the amount of leveling you'll need to do(and you should be doing this anyhow, but because standard frets are so easy to level, I promise you you're not taking the fretboard prep as far as you can/should), then the rest is gravy.

Author:	grumpy [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
HHG here, also; more as a lubricant than an adhesive. Try it in a test scrap; make two slots, and drive one in dry, and the other with a thin wipe(I use a toothpick to apply the HHG to the slot) of HHG. You'll be amazed at how easily the HHG'd one seats itself, and you definitely feel it seat itself, where the dry one has so much friction going-in that you have to rely on your eyes and/or ears to judge when it is seated. Use as little glue as you can; any extra will only needs cleanup, and there's also some water/moisture being added, so keep that to a minimum. If you don't have HHG, fish glue or plain 'ol yeller glue will work, also. I should note that I do charge extra for a refret in SS, but I don't charge extra(nor do I offer std. frets anyhow) for new builds. That wire you chose is pretty big and fat; hopefully that doesn't make the installation tougher on you... I understand why some love the larger frets, but I don't like them at all(for installing, and for playing).

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Chris Pile [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
Quote: IMHO, I don't think they are. I have customers that do, though. I've been turning them away, but I'm tired of turning away customers because they want SS. I just can't afford to give away that business. Exactly. What we do is market driven, and if the public wants it - they'll get it, even if it's not from your shop. So make your choices, and then live with them.

Author:	theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I'm absolutely OVER nickel silver fretwire for my custom guitars. Stainless steel is IMO a higher class fretwire, especially when highly polished! It adds a touch of class. Plus I can't stand the thought of someone having to remove the frets and put new ones in a few short years down the road (and possibly the life of the guitar, and possibly an amateur if I'm unavailable.They're not THAT hard to put in. I do charge extra for a refret with stainless steel wire, but my customers don't seem to mind, knowing that the longevity is greatly improved. As far as tools go, I use the StewMac fret tang nipper no problem, but I nib off about a milimeter or two at a time, and follow up with a file to clean up the underside of the fret. I've had no problem seating them, and I overbend the radius noticeably.

Author:	John Coloccia [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
grumpy wrote: I think standard fretwire isn't worth the grief! The stuff wears, and you only ever have a "perfect" fret job for a little while. Then the wear comes into play again... SS frets aren't a big deal to work with, and in many ways, are even -easier- to install. And once done, you're done. Beautiful, smooth, level frets, for decades, if not for life. I changed-over to SS frets in 2005 without charging a cent more, and without putting-up a notice that I was using the stuff. I tried it, found it far superior, and I aim to use, and offer, the best of everything I can find. A no-brainer decision to me... Honestly, if you take a bit more care in prepping the fretboard to minimize the amount of leveling you'll need to do(and you should be doing this anyhow, but because standard frets are so easy to level, I promise you you're not taking the fretboard prep as far as you can/should), then the rest is gravy. Well, my wire will be here today from Jescar. I'm going with 90X55, which has rapidly turned into my favorite fret wire. It's a lot like Dunlop's 6105, which is on my Peavey Wolfgang. I'm hoping to get the refret on the Ibanez done sometime today. When it's finished, I may end up agreeing with you. Do you typically use any glue when you install them? I generally try not to use glue, though lately I've been using a bit of hide glue or CA. I've started doing that because I've been getting a lot of older guitars lately, and I'm noticing that so many of them have loose frets that are starting to pop up.

Author:	ChuckB [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
I use HHG. Chuck

Author:	John Coloccia [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
You know, I never liked big frets either, and I definitely don't like jumbos, but this particular wire is very comfortable to me. I didn't even realize how much I liked it until I took a good look at my Wolfgang (one of my better playing guitars) and realized just how tall the frets were.

Author:	Kent Chasson [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
Only one thing to add which is that the barbs on SS don't hold quite as well. That's one reason (stiffness the other) that over-bending is problematic. That's also a reason why re-frets can be a pain but it's really not a problem at all on new boards. On new work, if you pre-fret your board and sand the ends flush on an edge sander, the extra time to polish the ends is maybe 1 minute. If you fret last, it's maybe 5 minutes. I also use the same tools with no problems.

Author:	jeb98 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
A little late, but I just want to second, or third, or forth, the opinions that stainless steel isn't that hard to work with. I've done refrets, as well as new put in the frets in a new neck, and it wasn't really noticeably harder than standard nickel steel fret wire to put in or cut. I just used standard nippers from LMII, and I even used the Channel Lock nippers straight from the home store. I originally used the stew mac fret cauls that go in the drill press, but to be honest I found that hammering them in got me better results as I was able to match the frets better with any of the small irregularities that the fret board may have had. Of course if you prep the fretboard to a perfect radius, then the fret cauls that stew mac sells would probably work better I suppose. Just wanted to let anyone know who may have thought about using S.S frets, but may have been worried by some peoples reviews of them being harder to install. Thanks, Jonas

Author:	John Coloccia [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stainless Steel frets advice
Well, let me just say that stainless ain't no big deal. Shoot, I played with it some years back...a couple of partial refrets. It seemed to much harder to work with. Since I'm doing this full time, now, I have a lot more fretting experience. I think for a beginner, it's a little harder to work with. If you have any sort of experience at all, though, it doesn't seem bad. You do need to really watch pay attention to the fret fit. It needs to fit well or it won't stay down...no fooling around here. My JS guitar had large fret slots. A sloppy .024 (worse in many spots, and all of the frets were basically just glued in. When I heated up the fret to get them out, they would literally just fall out and pop up as soon as the glue released. I had to slightly expand the SS frets tangs to get a perfect fit. After that, it was a cakewalk. My fret tang nippers are doing just fine, too.