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I still use a cotton circle soaked in Tite Bond to secure the intersection of the x-brace. But, I always hated doing it because it was a sticky, messy process. Today, accidentally, I discovered a trick that makes it a breeze. Lay the patch on some partchment paper and spread glue on it till soaked, scrape excess off. Cut four strips of partchment paper a bit taller than the braces, and about 2" long. Lay the glue patch on top of the intersection, and use the partchment strips to press into the braces. I'm not sure why, but it works very well! Hardly any fuss. Leave them there till dry. Use a small strip of wood to press into the tight corners.

Try it!

Mike

Normal parchment paper is NOT coated with nor does it contain silicone. You can buy versions that are but I never do-have never found it necessary as normal parchment has always released for me.

"Parchment paper

Modern parchment paper is made by running sheets of paper pulp through a bath of sulfuric acid[1] (a method similar to how tracing paper is made) or sometimes zinc chloride. This process partially dissolves or gelatinizes the paper, a process which is reversed by washing the chemicals off followed by drying. This treatment forms a sulfurized cross-linked material with high density, stability, and heat resistance, and low surface energy – thereby imparting good non-stick or release properties. The treated paper has an appearance similar to that of traditional parchment.

Bakery release paper

The stickless properties can be also achieved by employing a coated paper, for which a suitable release agent — a coating with a low surface energy and capability to withstand the temperatures involved in the baking or roasting process — is deposited onto the paper's surface; silicone (cured with a suitable catalyst) is frequently used."

For probably silly reasons and old wive's tales, I don't use wax paper around guitars. Partchment seems to work for just about anything I ever used wax paper for. And yes, I know that partchment paper has silicone in it. But it seems no where dangerous to me as wax paper. BTW, I thought about it and I think the reason partchment works so well in this application is the glue wets it well (sticky) but does not adhere after drying. Would wax paper do the same?

Filippo, I saw your post about the fret buck, I'm gonna order those plans and a few others from Luthier Cool Tools. Nice tip! Thanks!

Mike

OK, clearly I cannot spell. Parchment paper. I buy the grocery store stuff, Publix, I'm pretty sure it has silicone, but I will double check. It is certainly intended for baking purposes. But I have found endless applications for the stuff. And I never worry about its properties getting into the wood, thus possibly affecting the finish. Wax paper has, well, wax on it. You can actually scrape some off. That has always worried me, though I have never had a bad experience with it. Its just that after I discovered baking parchment paper, I never looked back. And after today, I found another useful property. It will let Titebond wet it, making it a good proxy between my fingers and a sticky surface, but not stay glued to it after drying. If you ever tried applying a cotton patch to the x-brace intersection, you have surely at one point or another encountered this conundrum.

Mike

Edit: I like the cotton patch because it is strong, yet flexible, and in my engineer's mind, that's a good thing for a joint like this.

Normal parchment is quite slick and intended for baking. It's been used forever for nonstick purposes without silicone. In my baking experience (which isn't insignificant) I've never seen the need for the treated stuff.

Unless the stuff you're buying says "non-stick" or "silicone treated" parchment then it probably doesn't have silicone. I wouldn't use the silicone treated stuff in the shop but I've used the regular stuff as well as wax paper a lot.

I've used wax paper for many years in glue-ups and, FWIW, have never had an issue. I've got some parchment paper in the shop (bought it several years ago for some un-remembered reason) but haven't used it yet

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I cut wax paper into 2 in rolls for all kinds of things in the shop.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Nor have I.

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John

I'm guessing a glue soaked patch would be fairly strong in tension (never tested it of course). Wouldn't it be weaker than a cap brace in compression (top flexing outward during oscillation)? Also, why wouldn't one want each leg of the X-brace to have similar strength? Not sure how one would get there with a glue soaked patch. Not saying it won't hold up, but I'm no seeing how it could strengthen the leg of the X brace that is notched away from the soundboard so it's stiffness is similar to the other X-brace leg.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

I will say that the J40 I am useing as a model for the pair I am building uses the glue patch. Maybe John Hall can advise. How are these effective or not so good?

Mike

I stand corrected.

For the last 10yrs or so I've bought my parchment almost exclusively from Whole Foods (5 blocks from my place) or Sur la Table ( 2 blocks from my place) because both are very conveniently located. The stuff I buy from WF is the silicone free If You Care stuff ( I don't think my WF carries anything else) and the brand (I don't recall the name at the moment) I buy at SLT comes in a silicone coated and non-coated version. The coated version says it clearly on the box, though-I mistakenly bought the coated stuff a couple of years ago and it felt noticeably different.

I assumed my experiences were typical but obviously they are not.

Btw, I do go through a fair amount of parchment, mostly for baking, in a year and the coated stuff is not necessary if you are using it correctly (just like nonstick pans aren't necessary-there's nothing you can't cook just as well or usually better, with no sticking, in ss or cast iron if you are using proper technique).

I agree. It's not like our predecessors spent all of their time using chisels to separate their food from their cookware. A properly seasoned (and used) cast iron pan is as non-stick as any modern chemically coated pan. And probably better for you.

m

I use wax paper works great NP.
I am a retired chef, when I got married my wife thought my well seasoned cast iron skillets (#3,5,8,10,12) looked greasy so she put them in the dish washer... ... the roof came off the house that night.

Joe H

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Joe

My wife asks me "How many Guitars do you need?"
I reply "When I die count them; thats how many I needed".

I think of the patch as more of a security blanket. It really only provides support after the X-brace joint breaks. (half kidding)

Some say that the cloth covering is there to hide imperfect joinery. I've been persuaded that it's strongest to cap the X, so have never tried cloth or paper. Capping is easy to do, and it's not challenging to find silicone-free spruce . . .

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

The biggest argument I've heard anyone make for using a cloth patch on the X-brace intersection is........"I've never seen one fail.". My question would be, fail at what?......remaining glued to the X-brace arms?.......providing equal stiffness to both arms of the X-brace? I'm unsure the purpose of the cloth patch. It does hide a bad lap joint if the X-brace is triangulated before gluing the lap joint together.......and it hides the joint per chance you have a glue failure making it more difficult to detect.

Can I ask the purpose of a cloth patch over the lap joint at the X-brace intersection?

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

This really sounds like a question for John Hall!!

Mike