On the offhand chance you ever have to remove a fingerboard again,
Heating the palette knife with the travel iron as well as the fingerboard make things go a little faster and easier. DAMHIKT
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| Gap between fingerboard and neck http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37750 |
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| Author: | Kathy Matsushita [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gap between fingerboard and neck |
I just glued my fingerboard to the neck, and discovered a small gap running for a few frets on one side of the fingerboard, between the fingerboard and neck. It's Titebond. Here's a photo: Attachment: IMG_3744.jpg What's the best way to soften this glue joint and reclamp it? All the rest of the glue joint is fine. I have one of these bridge/fingerboard heater irons: Attachment: Bridge_Heater_and_Fingerboard_Iron_sm.jpg Should I just heat up the area with this, and then re-clamp it? Or should I try to slip some more glue in the gap somehow, and then re-clamp it? (The slots in the heater iron don't actually fit over the frets in the section I'd need to heat up, though, so the iron wouldn't actually be able to sit on top of the wood itself.)OR....I also have one of those silicon heating pads for a bridge: Attachment: Screen Shot 2012-09-15 at 3.44.56 PM.png Would this work better, as it could just be placed over the fingerboard edge I'd need to heat? I could lay it over that section and just weight it down or clamp it, until the glue softens?Any help would be greatly appreciated! I've never run into this problem before and am not quite sure how to go about this.... |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
Kathy, I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Titebond can be heated and then reclamped while retaining its original strength. I would tend to remove the fretboard completely, clean both surfaces, then reglue. Like I said, I could be wrong, but personally I wouldn't take the chance. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
I concur with the post that says to remove and redo.I've used a heat lamp to remove finger boards. Heats evenly,which can be a problem using other metheds. Use a long pallette knife to work between the board and neck going slowly as the glue softens. Tom |
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| Author: | Kathy Matsushita [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
Thanks, Tom and Michael!!! I just spent an hour or so with a travel iron (that's all I had) and a ground-down really thin paint scraper (with the corners rounded) --- and I have successfully removed my very first (and, hopefully, only) fingerboard!! I don't see how people can do it as quickly as they do --- it took a lot of muscle power and patience on my part to get through that glue! I can see how a heat lamp would work better; the travel iron seemed to take forever to heat it up enough for the glue to soften enough for me to move through it. Well, I guess I'll just chalk this up as another valuable learning experience --- Here are my results (no wood lost on either the neck or fingerboard --- YAY!!!). Now all I have to do is clamp it much better this next time, after I've cleaned it all up. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
I've had a few examples where the Fretboard curled up a touch when using water base glue - mainly HHG. I counteract it by wetting the outer side of the board before applying glue to the underside. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
This is where Fish and Hot Hide glue come in as the better glue, You could just heat it with steam. You got my number Call me Kathy. |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
Just a couple of points to add some ideas: The heat source I've used successfully in removing fret board extensions from the body and bridges, both glued with the LMI white glue is a hairdryer. I have one that seems to blow hotter than others - too hot to hold your hand in front of for very long. The second thing is that before you just re-glue and clamp your fret board back on, do a careful investigation to see if there was a reason for the gap other than just inadequate clamping the first go round. If two surfaces are well matched, there shouldn't be gaps even if the clamping wasn't all that great. If the two surfaces were not all that well matched, more clamping may not do anything and you may find yourself back where you started. Cheers, Pat |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
Kathy, I apologize for not sharing my removal technique--but you did it just the way I have in the past. Long ago I had a long piece of 3/4" aluminum that I used between the fretboard and iron, to help spread the heat. But, after moving and losing the alum. I simply used a small iron with an old bread knive that I ground down. Anyway, congratulations on your successful procedure. |
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| Author: | WilliamS [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
Just FYI for next time: If you catch it right away, as long as the titebond isn't cured you CAN reheat to reactivate the glue and clamp it down. I confirmed this with the manufacturer a few months ago when I used TB1 for binding. After 45 min-1 hr I removed some of the tape to recheck the joint and noticed a section where somehow the tape had gotten caught under the binding. I was able to heat it up, remove the tape and reclamp. I got a little squeeze-out and it looked fine. Since this was for a client I called to double check with the folks at titebond and was told that since it wasn't cured and I got squeeze-out that the joint would be plenty strong, that reheating to reactivate the uncured glue was perfectly acceptable. Having said that, on a fingerboard, if it was bound with titebond, by heating it you very well could both weaken the cured titebond and make the cured binding joint visible. Edit: Just went back and noticed that your fb is unbound. So, had you caught this soon enough you probably could have successfully heated and clamped. |
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| Author: | Kathy Matsushita [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
To all who responded to my problem --- THANKS!!! I just now successfully glued the cleaned-up fingerboard to the neck, this time with some fish glue that John Hall so very graciously sent me a few weeks ago. I hadn't really experimented with it till today --- the first thing I did, in trying to decide what to do, was to read as much as I could on fish glue on the web, in addition to all your posts. Then I tried it out on some scrap wood, to determine exactly how to apply it, and how much to spread on (I ended up using a roller). On my test piece, there was a slight gap on one side, and I heated it up with my travel iron to see how it would re-soften the glue so I could reclamp it --- it worked! So now I knew that a fish glue joint could, indeed, be reclamped, if necessary (though, hopefully, it won't be necessary on this one!). Turns out that probably I had that original gap underneath the fingerboard because all I had clamped that section with was a couple of cam clamps on supported by the heel cap area (no heel cap on yet), and I hadn't really re-checked it after I had clamped it. This time I used Jorgensen clamps, so I could clamp it more tightly. I also had read about some people sanding a very slight hollow in the middle of the neck surface (and even on the fingerboard bottom), so I did that, too. This time it all clamped down nice and solidly, with no gaps. I think I like the fish glue. Interesting smell. I liked how it was easy to clean the squeeze-out with just a dampened rag. I liked how it "grabbed" somewhat more quickly than Titebond, yet not so quickly that I couldn't still adjust things --- It was easier to set the fingerboard to exactly the right position before I had to apply the clamps. It didn't keep moving around as much as Titebond does. I could even temporarily remove the clamps after it had set up a little, to continue cleaning up the squeeze-out. ANYWAY....thanks for all the help and suggestions --- will let you know how it comes out, after I remove the clamps tomorrow. People seem to be saying that it's good to wait at least 24 hours before you work again on it, right? This was, indeed, a good learning experience --- I learned how to remove a fingerboard, and how to use fish glue --- so, actually, I'm kind of glad it happened! (Though I wouldn't really want it to happen again.) |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
On the offhand chance you ever have to remove a fingerboard again, Heating the palette knife with the travel iron as well as the fingerboard make things go a little faster and easier. DAMHIKT |
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| Author: | Kathy Matsushita [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gap between fingerboard and neck |
Rodger Knox wrote: On the offhand chance you ever have to remove a fingerboard again, Heating the palette knife with the travel iron as well as the fingerboard make things go a little faster and easier. DAMHIKT Thanks for that tip, Rodger! I had forgotten about that! Kathy |
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