| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| What radius for fret board? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37640 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Spyder [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What radius for fret board? |
I'm getting ready to make my next tool purchase so I can get these first two done. I was looking at the Stew Mac site for a radius sanding block for my fret board, and noticed they have a rather large range of radius' to choose from. So which do I get? My guitars will be 12 fret, 1.800 at the nut. And what is the best way to tell what radius you need? Thanks, |
|
| Author: | JasonMoe [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
I like a 16. |
|
| Author: | Freeman [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
On a wide fretboard like 1-3/4 I like 20 inch, but then I also play a lot of slide. |
|
| Author: | Spyder [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Thanks, that's good advice. Unfortunately, the closest shop to me that carries those guitars is an hour away. But here at home I have three: an Alvarez MD90, a circa 1973 Terada, and a Fender Quier strat. Any idea what those might be? I like the feel of the Alvarez, it seems to have more curve than the others. Also, what is the best way to bend a curve into the fret wire before installing it? Trying to get my head around that one too. Thanks again for all the help, this place is great! 
|
|
| Author: | Freeman [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Phil, I'm going to guess that the strat is 9 to 12, don't have any idea about the others. However you can make some little radius gauges very easiy and check them. If you have a drawing program like Autocad just plot some circles of 9, 12, 16 and 20 inch radius and cut them out. Or use a compass or even a piece of string with a pencil tied to the end. Cut them out of cardboard and check your guitars. Bingo As far as bending the fret wire, I have found that on 20 inch (my most common acoustic) that I don't have to bend it at all. I used to hammer my frets in, but now I use a StewMac caul in a drill press (you could also use the cauls to measure your f/b radius) http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_su ... _Caul.html When I built my LP clone I wanted 12 inch radius so I built a simple little fretwire bender based on the one StewMac sells - two ball bearings and a bolt with three big "fender" washers. Sandwiched between two large diameter ones is a slightly smaller one, that makes a groove in that the tang of the fretwire moves thru. The middle bolt has a bronze bushing so it can rotate - the socket wrench turns the bolt with the washer while I feed the wire thru it 
|
|
| Author: | LaurieW [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Phil - it looks like Alvarez doesn't post their specs anywhere. I'd invest in the cheaper plastic radius guages to measure the radius to match your guitar. I wish I had bought the notched sets so you don't have to take the strings off. I bought mine years ago on Ebay for about $15, if my memory is correct. Laurie |
|
| Author: | John Killin [ Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
I made this fret bender a couple of weeks ago based instructions I found here: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=14027 Lots of people have their own version of this jig so a search will give you ideas. I tried the hand crank but didn’t get that working right. As it is, I can just push the wire through. I like Freeman's socket wrench handle. That is brilliant. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") Attachment: Fret Bender 1.jpg Attachment: Fret Bender 2.jpg Attachment: Fret Bender 3.jpg Attachment: Fret Bender 4.jpg Attachment: Fret Bender 5.jpg
|
|
| Author: | Todd Rose [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
A compound radius allows for the lowest action with cleanest sound. My guitars go from 12" to about 20". If you use radiused sanding blocks (I don't), progressing through several radii -- or however you initially create your compound radius -- be sure to sand with a long, straight beam as the final step, using your eye to carefully follow the paths of the strings (i.e. following the taper of the neck, rather than sanding parallel to the centerline), to get it all level. I use a long carpenter's level (the faces of which I have sanded dead flat/straight). And, when doing this final step, be especially careful along the edges of the board; if you sand down into the edges too much, your fret ends won't want to seat down tightly. I actually sand a small flat into the radius along each edge, to ensure the fret ends seat down tightly (it makes too slight a difference for the player to be able to feel). After fretting, use the long beam again to level the frets (there should be very little leveling to do if you've done a good job with your fretting), again following the paths of the strings. The finesse of this long-beam sanding is what will give you a really nice playing surface with a compound radius, ultimately allowing you to set up the guitar with very low action and a clean sound*. *There are other key pieces of that puzzle: putting a proper amount of relief in the neck, and carefully cutting your nut slots just right. |
|
| Author: | CharlieT [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Todd - you mention you don't use a series of radius block to get set the initial compound radius. What method do you use for that? |
|
| Author: | CharlieT [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Todd Stock wrote: Not the same Todd, but easy to do with a flat block. Try one off the guitar before committing...like using a cant file to crown frets, it has a learning curve. Soapbox...much of the fretwork I see on luthier built guitars - including some really well known builders - is mediocre. A compound radius is not a fix for bad geometry or substandard fretwork. Thanks for the info, Todd. I was planning to give that a try with a plane, but the sanding block may be safer for my first go. I'll play on some scrap first. I can't comment on mediocre fretwork as mine has not risen to that level yet. |
|
| Author: | Todd Rose [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
CharlieT wrote: Todd - you mention you don't use a series of radius block to get set the initial compound radius. What method do you use for that? The method I would recommend for a hobby builder is to use a smoothing plane. Again, plane in strokes that follow the paths of the strings, not parallel to the centerline. Work carefully and check your progress often with your eye, your fingers, radius gauges, and a straight edge. Like with carving a neck, you can start with a centerline drawn down the length of the FB, and don't touch that line until you're virtually done. Drawing other witness lines on as well may help you see where and how much material you're removing. I started out with this method, then went to a jig using a router, but I might switch back to a plane. This is one of those areas where I think you reap more benefits by putting a little practice into using a simple hand tool than by tooling up with specialized tools or jigs, unless you're going to be making a large number of guitars. |
|
| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
The last one I did was my first crack at a compound radius. I basically did as Todd says. I started my strokes at the nut end and planed along visualizing the string paths judging from the taper. When I was happy with the radius at the nut, I checked with a straight edge to verify the string paths were flat. I have no idea what actual radius the other end turned out to be. It turned out well* * I too need to practice to attain mediocre fret work. |
|
| Author: | Todd Rose [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
I would like to offer another perspective, my purpose being not to disagree with my fellow Todd, whose point is well taken, but to shed a different light and encourage beginners and hobby builders (many of whom will build just a few guitars in their lifetimes, and will never delve deeply into repair work). It is possible to do very, very good fretwork (good enough to make good players say, "hey, this guitar plays/feels great!") on your first guitar. It requires willingness to study the principles and the process (it's not rocket science, but there are concepts to understand and methods to learn); patience; utmost attention to detail; careful, focused, thoughtful work; and belief that you are capable of arriving at great results -- and fully intend to do so. If you underestimate what you are capable of, you will likely fall far short of your potential. If you think you can't do very, very good fretwork until you've done it a hundred times, you will likely not take the time and make the effort to go through the careful and methodical process of doing it right the first time. Sure, you'll likely make some mistakes, but they can be dealt with and you can still arrive at a great result. Sure, you'll get even better, and certainly faster, on subsequent guitars, but there's no reason you can't aim high and hit the mark the first time. I would suggest thinking of excellent playability as the single most important thing to achieve on your early efforts, devote yourself fully to achieving it, and put as many hours into it as it takes. BTW, another method I use for sanding the FB, before the frets go in (the rough compound radius is already done on the router jig), which works the same as using a long beam, is to sand the board upside down on a flat surface (I use my table saw, with a long strip of sandpaper stuck to it). I often find that easier to control than a beam. Again, great focus of attention goes into the motion of sanding the compound radius and sanding evenly down the length of the board. I use witness lines and sand lightly, checking my work frequently to see that I'm removing material in line with the paths of the strings and maintaining the intended radii and the straightness of the board. |
|
| Author: | Todd Rose [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
It has occurred to me that my remarks may have had the opposite effect of what I intended on some people - discouraging rather than encouraging. If so, please accept my apologies for expressing myself poorly, brush me off, and move on. 
|
|
| Author: | Todd Rose [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Todd Rose wrote: BTW, another method I use for sanding the FB, before the frets go in (the rough compound radius is already done on the router jig), which works the same as using a long beam, is to sand the board upside down on a flat surface (I use my table saw, with a long strip of sandpaper stuck to it). I often find that easier to control than a beam. Again, great focus of attention goes into the motion of sanding the compound radius and sanding evenly down the length of the board. I use witness lines and sand lightly, checking my work frequently to see that I'm removing material in line with the paths of the strings and maintaining the intended radii and the straightness of the board. I've used this method on refrets as well as new guitars, when the neck comes off easily, like on Taylors. |
|
| Author: | Spyder [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Hey guys, thanks for all the info and encouragement. I've built quite a few dulcimers, so I've had some exposure, but compared to a guitar, those seem more like a warm up. But hey, any experience can be built on, right? I got my parts ordered today, and went with the 16". Best I can tell, that is the radius of my Alvarez. The Terada is a 20, I think, it also has a slightly wider neck. But I like the feel of the Alvarez better, and since I'm doing my own layout based on what I like best about these two, I'm good with my decision to use the 16". Still making progress... |
|
| Author: | douglas ingram [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
Todd Rose wrote: I would suggest thinking of excellent playability as the single most important thing to achieve on your early efforts, devote yourself fully to achieving it, and put as many hours into it as it takes. After building some number of guitars, and focusing my early efforts on who knows what aspects of guitar making I thought most important at the time, I have come to this same conclusion. No musician will give a dang about the great tone or the finesse of the woodwork if the guitar plays like crap. |
|
| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What radius for fret board? |
I joke about my fretwork because I really don’t have much of a yardstick against which to measure my results. I’m not much of a player so I can stink up the joint almost as well on a terrible guitar as I can on a nicely set up axe. I don’t end up with frets that buzz and I can achieve reasonably low action. No one who has ever played any of my instruments has ever complained about playability (even when asked directly). I suspect though (like with just about every aspect of my development in this hobby) I have vast room for improvement. The further I go along, the more I am made aware of how things can be better. I’m sure Todd Stock would be disappointed to see my results; someday, I hope to be able to be disappointed in my current level of “mastery.” After all, no one has ever complained about playability but no one has said they were blown away either. I’d like to get to the point where the first thing someone says is “Wow, this plays really nice!” rather than “Wow, you made this?” Occasionally I will get a “this plays better than my (fill in factory guitar name here),” but that is usually coming from a player who doesn’t know you are supposed to have a guitar set up after you buy it from Guitar Center. . . |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|