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Gibson Settles
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37371		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Gibson Settles
Not much information here, but just came across this.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/co ... ?hpt=hp_t3

So what happens to the confiscated wood they are releasing their claim to?

Mike
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
It will be used for making Office furniture for Gubment officals .
Author:  John A [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
usually seized items go up for auction - maybe i should't mention this....

then again if you buy it at an auction from the government - can they come after you later ? My guess is that if they decide not to auction it - it will be come part of the burn pile of other evidence...drugs and illegal woods being burned at a landfill.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
John A wrote:
usually seized items go up for auction - maybe i should't mention this....

then again if you buy it at an auction from the government - can they come after you later ? My guess is that if they decide not to auction it - it will be come part of the burn pile of other evidence...drugs and illegal woods being burned at a landfill.


Wonder where is the landfill ??
:shock: ;)
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Since they settled rather than going to trial, has the wood officially been determined illegal? It is a shame to let it burn, but I can see how you can't undercut yourself by putting up for auction. Hard to say that you are going to block importation of something in order to diminish the world demand for it only to turn around and put in into the US market.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
You mean they will publically rally against it all the while snorting it up behind the scenes partying it up with nubile young co-eds who are not their spouses?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Exactly!
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Maybe the gubmint will go into the exotic wood business, and sell it out the back door for cash.
Or have AG Eric Holder sell it to luthiers in Mexico on the sly.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
New High End Guitars on the market Name " Gubment Guitar "
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Does their settling without a trial ruling set any kind of legal precedent fior the rest of us?
Author:  klooker [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
I'm no attorney but I don't think settling out of court sets a precedent. It only means that they both agreed to some terms.

If there was a verdict, that could set a precedent.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin Looker
Author:  Bob Shanklin [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
The next announcement you see from Gibson is they are no longer making instruments in the USA.

Bob
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
bobalou95 wrote:
The next announcement you see from Gibson is they are no longer making instruments in the USA.

Bob


Way to go, kill more American industries, shop more jobs overseas so I guess companies can profit off of "illegal immigration"...
Author:  Darryl Young [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Gibson Settles
Amen to Fillipo's statement.
Author:  jac68984 [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
Does their settling without a trial ruling set any kind of legal precedent fior the rest of us?


In strict legal terms - no, this settlement does not create a legal precedent. In more lax terms (i.e., as "an act or instance that may be used as an example in dealing with subsequent similar instances") - yes, this would be a kind of legal precedent. The Gibson debacle was a great test case for the government, and it was able to "enforce" the law without allowing a court to examine the merits of its position. We can expect to see the same tactics from regulators and prosecutors in the future.

I agree that this is an abusive process, but no one is forced to settle with the government, and settlement implies a desire by the defendant to settle as much as the government. In other words, the government cannot unilaterally settle these types of claims. It can dismiss or try. Can it make defending the case exceedingly uneconomical or inconvenient - you bet. Can the government make you an offer you can't refuse (minus any horse heads in your bed) - sure. Do you HAVE to accept the offer and accept the regulator's position - nope.

Given the last few U.S. Supreme Court opinions addressing an agency's interpretation of its regs, agency interpretation is almost impenetrable. One could argue Gibson did us all a favor by not solidifying the regulatory agency's interpretation of the relevant law. In any case, if Gibson doesn't have incentive and adequate funds to fully fully litigate its case, I doubt us little guys will get it done either.
Author:  Shaw [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Meanwhile we wipe our ___ with more wood in one year then the amount of wood used for all the musical instruments made throughout history.
Author:  Carey [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Shaw wrote:
Meanwhile we wipe our ___ with more wood in one year then the amount of wood used for all the musical instruments made throughout history.
Shaw wrote:
Meanwhile we wipe our ___ with more wood in one year then the amount of wood used for all the musical instruments made throughout history.


With woods pertinent to this case?
Author:  Kim [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
WaddyThomson wrote:
Exactly!



So precisely were would one submit one's resume in order to secure employment at this rip snort'in, nubile party'in company you guys keep referring to as 'the gubmint' then?

Enquiring minds need to know :)

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Laidback1 [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Politics are not, in the Settlement Gibson admitted to knowing the wood being sourced was illegal under the law. They CHOSE to ignore the law and move forward....

I dint agree with the heavy handed tactics used by the Govt in this case but it my mind it's hard for me to feel sorry for Gibson. They knew it was wrong and did it anyway and then shouted to the heavens that they were being picked on.
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Carey wrote:
With woods pertinent to this case?


Costco doesn't provide Lacey paperwork with it's paper products. If I got raided I couldn't prove any of my TP was here legally.

Do I understand right? That technically, I need to be able to prove the source of all wood and wildlife products in my home - paper towels, salad bowl, wall studs...

Mike
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Quote:
Gibson admitted to knowing the wood being sourced was illegal under the law.


Of course, they admitted it.... false confessions are pressured out of the innocent all the time!


Quote:
I dint agree with the heavy handed tactics used by the Govt in this case


Agents wearing body armor and carrying drawn guns were hardly necessary to raid an American company selling wood products. Gibson was not a threat to the agents, and the company doesn't keep guns around to protect themselves or their legal products. Sending lawyers would have sufficed in this case - not a phalanx of armed officers. Keep in mind this happened twice!

Guilty, or not - the gubmint used a sledgehammer when a stern poke in the chest would have sufficed.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
They actually came with Guns drawn? Sounds a bit far fetched, unless they expected a shootout.
Author:  klooker [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Michael.N. wrote:
They actually came with Guns drawn? Sounds a bit far fetched, unless they expected a shootout.


I'm not taking sides on this, but I think that is one of the facts, they did have guns drawn.

Kevin Looker
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Kim wrote:
WaddyThomson wrote:
Exactly!



So precisely were would one submit one's resume in order to secure employment at this rip snort'in, nubile party'in company you guys keep referring to as 'the gubmint' then?

Enquiring minds need to know :)

Cheers

Kim


I think you have to start with fundraisers and mudslining, but I'm not sure.
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Settles
Laidback1 wrote:
...in the Settlement Gibson admitted to knowing the wood being sourced was illegal under the law. They CHOSE to ignore the law and move forward.


You've made quite a leap there, don't ya think. [:Y:] We know the first sentence above is true, but that may have little or nothing to do with the validity of the second sentence.
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