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| Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37153 |
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| Author: | GeorgeHeatley [ Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
Hello everyone, I have been lurking on the forum for a long time but decided it was about time I got involved. I have some questions about fan fret guitars but thought I'd introduce myself as well. My names is George, I'm a 21 year old student at Merton College in the UK studying guitar making and repair. I have a few projects to work on at the moment but I would like to start a Multi Scale guitar. I'm struggling to decide on the scale length of the instrument. I don't know how makers go about deciding what the ideal scale lengths of the instrument should be. I want to make this instrument with scale lengths ideal for the DADGAD player. I've heard of people mentioning a perpendicular fret, I can only think that deciding the perpendicular fret will give the angle at the nut or bridge and influence the degree of fan which also depends on the difference between the two scale lengths??? How do makers decide this based on the customers needs? I have also been thinking about how the guitar should be braced i.e. heavier/lighter and effects this may have on an X-braces position. I noticed some makers for example Ervin Somogyi has a bridge design that keeps the wings of the bridge square from the centre of the guitar with the saddle angled for the scale lengths. Is this to avoid having to angle the X-brace? Also how does a fan fret guitar effect choice of strings?? I'm sure there is many more questions in my head but these are what certainly stick out at the moment. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, George |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
Welcome George. I'm not a fan fret kind of guy so I'm afraid I'll be of no help. There are people here that know all about them and can help you out. I'm sure one of them will be along. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
The only fan fret I've done so far was a harp ukulele, but here are my thoughts... Deciding scale difference: Play long scale and short scale guitars, compare their sounds. Pay attention to the tone quality of the high string and low string in particular, and how they perform in drop tuning versus standard, and at low and high frets. IMO, short scale (scales around 24.75") is plenty long enough for standard tuning, but on the short end for DADGAD. Long scale (around 25.5") is just about right for DADGAD, and not "too long" for standard yet. I'd keep the difference fairly small for your first one. Just using those example scales, 24.75" to 25.5", would probably be good. Or you could bump that up to 25-25.75" or even 25-26". Deciding perpendicular fret: Around 5th to 10th fret seems to be the best area. Player wise, if they hold the guitar more parallel to the floor, you'd want the perpendicular fret closer to the nut, whereas if they tilt the neck up like classical position, you could move it closer to the bridge. Imagine playing bar chords at low and high frets, and the angle of the wrist you end up with, and the angle of the bridge relative to the picking hand. Keep in mind that the wider the strings are spaced, the less angle you get. Since the strings are spaced wider at the bridge than the nut, then it makes sense to put the perpendicular fret closer to the nut than the bridge. In other words, if you put it at the 12th fret, the nut will be more angled than the bridge. And if you use wider nut and bridge spacing, you can do larger scale differentials without comfort problems... unless you have one of those players that can't stand over 1 11/16" nut width. String choice: Regular lights should be fine, but you can calculate out custom sets and order individual strings if you want. Bracing: Shouldn't need to be any heavier braced. The X will most likely need to be rotated somewhat. Just make sure you get good overlap of the bridge wings and the X. Ervin's style of twisting the bridge center is one way to avoid rotating the X, and is a good approach if doing small differentials. Remember, the saddle slot is already angled for compensation on normal bridges, so it's really not much different. I don't know what sort of bracing the guys with extremely angled bridges use. Personally I like an angled saddle slot, rotated X, and reverse-angled bridge wings, so no one thing is too extreme. And one more point. When marking the fret positions to cut the slots, make sure you mark along the string paths (following the taper of the fingerboard). If you mark them along the edges of a rectangular fingerboard and then taper it, the positions will be wrong. |
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| Author: | DC Ross [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
For DADGAD tuning, you don't need to compensate for extreme downtuning (which is where the benefits of fanned-fret / multiscale are very apparent). 25.5" on the treble side and 26.5"-26.75" on the bass side would give a nice balance of string tension and playability. I prefer the 6th - 7th fret to be parallel, again for playability in first position, without getting too extreme in the upper frets. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
I only have built one and it was 27/25 scale and I feel the 2 inch spread is maximum one would want. I have another in mind and it will be probably a 1 or 1.5" spread with 27 on the bass side. For DADGAD heavier strings on the 3 lowered strings work great on either a fan or a normal fret guitar. |
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| Author: | GeorgeHeatley [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
Thank you for all your replies. I think I'm starting to lean towards 25"-26" or 25"-25.75" With a perpendicular 7th or 8th fret The j-200 I made was 25.5" i think and the when tuned to dadgad with 0.12's I'm quite happy with the tension. What are your thoughts? Thanks, George |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
Touch base with Bruce Sexauer at the UMGF. Tom |
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fan Fret/Multi Scale Questions |
I have one at 24 7/8- 25 1/2 that lives in open D quite happily with either 11's or 12's. |
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