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Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
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Author:  mkellyvrod [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
A question of preference for anyone who has built a classical guitar. I'm new to the craft and decided to go with a classical guitar for my first two builds. Started out doing two of everything anticipating a fatal flaw somewhere along the way. Anyway I'm pretty much trying to follow Cumpiano and Natelson (1993). I've just glued one top plate to the neck, and now I'm wondering before I glue number two together, about shaping the neck more. Looks like Cumpiano and Natelson do a lot of the final shaping after they have pretty much glued everything together, but seems like it might be easier to do a lot more of the shaping before hand. Since I'm doing two, I guess I can diverge at this point; but I do like the reinforcement I get from repeting one step right away on the next guitar. I've corrected a lot of small mistakes this way. Anyway, what do you guys prefer? Should I just stick with Cumpiano and Natelson? idunno

Thanks in advance. I always appreciate the views that have been shared.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
I'm always one for experimenting, trying different methods. Might be a bit early in your building career to be doing that but I guess it's a way to find your style. I'd probably stick to C&N for those 2 builds though. It makes some sense to build two side by side.
I started out building the Spanish method, which pretty much leaves the Neck uncarved. I used that method for years without digressing. Now I finish the Neck completely (including fretboard), attached with a completely different Neck joint. That's very similar to the Steel String method - which is more of a tradition of the North European builders of the 19th century. It has it's advantages, it has some disadvantages.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
I shape as much as I can on the heel before assembly, as it is much easier, but leave the main neck as wide and thick as possible as this offers a solid foundation on which to glue the fingerboard with zero or minimal distortions from the water in the glue. This second part of the shaping is easy and I see no advantage in doing it before.
Author:  Robbie_McD [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
Excellent advice Alexandru, I do the same....
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
I do like Alex, shape the heel and head to finish, but leave the mid section unshaped. This allows for all sorts of clamping without interference. Easy to blend it in after. Some very traditional builders leave the heel unshaped until later, and carve it in place. I'm not sure about why they do it that way, but it makes me very nervous contemplating it.
Author:  Quine [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
I'd base your methods on your tools. Once the back and sides are glued you'll have less access to carve the heel and upper neck area. I find some neck blanks require carving from both ends due to the grain. Just be sure you can get your tools in that heel area.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
[quote="douglas ingram"Some very traditional builders leave the heel unshaped until later, and carve it in place. I'm not sure about why they do it that way, but it makes me very nervous contemplating it.[/quote]

I've seen that too and I wouldn't try it. It is so easy to loose your chisel into the sides when carving. You could also reveal gaps between neck and sides. If the excess material is off you can see if the sides fit well in the neck during assembly.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
Alexandru Marian wrote:
douglas ingram wrote:
Some very traditional builders leave the heel unshaped until later, and carve it in place. I'm not sure about why they do it that way, but it makes me very nervous contemplating it.


I've seen that too and I wouldn't try it. It is so easy to loose your chisel into the sides when carving. You could also reveal gaps between neck and sides. If the excess material is off you can see if the sides fit well in the neck during assembly.

the guy who is teaching me does that sometimes, he says it helps to keep him fit.
Author:  mkellyvrod [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
Thank you all for such quick responses and good advice. I have completed the carving pretty much as Alexandru has described and shown (picture is great - Thanks), so tomorrow I will be gluing the other top on, and getting ready for the sides. As soon as I figure out how to post pictures, I can show you how not to do a few things.

Marty
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
I finish shaping my heel after the guitar is completed but before finishing. I find it easier, somehow. I've done it both ways, and seem to like this better for some reason. I don't find it difficult to keep from gouging the side.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
It's not difficult to work if one has a steady hand and careful eye, but it can happen, don't ask me how I know. I was refining the heel, (decided it is too bulky) and with the corner of the eye I noticed something on my bench, a plate about to fall or smth like that. Bang side gouge, it was all in a split second.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
I taper the heel where it meets the sides but only do basic shaping and leave the neck square (but profiled to the the taper of the fretboard until the last.
Makes it far easier to clamp and hold the instrument while working and provides extra stiffness during fretting to minmize or eliminate neck distortion from the pressure of the frets.
Key here is to not use any glue between the heel and the sides on the outside so the wood comes away easily when you carve (I use a very sharp 6" Swedish (Mora) knife.
Carving the heel (and integrating it's shape in a sophisticated way into the neck and heel at the back) is one of my favorite parts of construction and I much prefer doing it once the board is on and fretted.
Attachment:
Laplante#96Assembled2.jpg
Author:  mkellyvrod [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
Thanks David for your reply. You represent the consensus opinion of the group, and I am proceeding accordingly. :)
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
Alexandru Marian wrote:
I shape as much as I can on the heel before assembly, as it is much easier, but leave the main neck as wide and thick as possible as this offers a solid foundation on which to glue the fingerboard with zero or minimal distortions from the water in the glue. This second part of the shaping is easy and I see no advantage in doing it before.


I see you use the wedge method. I've been thinking of trying that out on my next build.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
Whatever method you use for carving the heel, treat it as pure sculpture and look for an elegance of sweet flowing curves. Too many beginners carve a very chunky heel.
Author:  mkellyvrod [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shaping the Neck on My Classical Build
Thanks, Douglas for the advice.
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