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Neck questions for my first build
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37065		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Leanu [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Neck questions for my first build
I have a couple questions in regard to the neck.

I've read many different ways to form the neck/body joint and since I've been planning my build I've assumed that I would be using a dovetail. However, I'm now planning out the neck part of my instrument and am not fully convinced that this would be the right way to go. So my questions are:

1. Does the dovetail have to be exactly perfect with absolutely NO crack or seperation between the neck and body?

2. I've read for the most part that the angle of the neck needs to be 1.5 degrees. How does one obtain this angle with a dovetail?

3. Is there any other method any of you have used that is much more practical than the dovetail?

I'm building a Tenor Uke that will be strung like a Mandolin. Claro Walnut back and sides and Sitka Spruce top. My neck is Mahogany sandwiched around a strip of hardwood (rather than using some kind of truss rod).

Thanks!
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
Looks in to a mortise and tenon. Its WAY simpler than a dovetail.
Author:  klooker [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
The dovetail is a very elegant joint because of how simple it is. Unfortunately, it's difficult to execute & difficult to disassemble if you need to reset the neck.

Do a mortise & tenon - it's still a lot of work to get everything lined up while simultaneously getting the heel to body joint clean.


Kevin Looker
Author:  Freeman [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
Cumpiano called dovetails "the joint from hell". I ignored him and built a couple for my first few. I've reset a few more. Everything now is a bolted joint - much easier (assuming you can get inside your uke to tighten the bolts.

Btw, I have seen some uke builds that used Spanish heels. That may be a traditonal joint and would be easy if you are building on a work board. I've only used Spanish heels on my classical, but don't see any reason it wouldn't be good for a uke.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
+1 on the butt joint.

Fillipo, what kind of inserts are you using, and do you reinforce the end grain somehow?
Author:  Leanu [ Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
Hey all,

Thanks for the opinions! I have built 3 spanish heel necks in the past, so I believe I will go that route!
Author:  Rob Flindall [ Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
I purchased this jig off of ebay and it works fantastic! It will make M&T as well as dovetail joints. They have a video so you can see it in action. I`ve only used it for one guitar so far and it made the neck set angle absolutely perfectly. The guitar I used it on was a Martin Kit which already has a 1.5 degree angle already cut, but that angle was off just a smidgen. I used the jig to modify the angle and it was perfect.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUTHIERS-Neck-Jig-for-Acoustic-Guitar-Construction-/280916740108?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4167f1480c#ht_1258wt_932

Rob
PS - I am in no way affiliated with this seller.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
A Spanish heel is a pretty nice joint, provided there will be no neck resets down the road. I am thinking that would include ukes.

I did a butt joint on a steel string once. It wasn't bad but I switched to M&T anyway. From a design standpoint it just seems stronger than a butt joint.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
Are you all suggesting a glued in mortise and tenon over a dovetail? A bolt on M&T is pretty common but just glue?

I used to do dove tails but always struggled with them. I have been doing a bolt on butt joint now... sooo much easier. I did an M&T on my last build which was a Selmer guitar only because the heal is so thin you can't put inserts in.

But to answer part of the question, the angled edges of the dovetail need to lock in place and be flush with the angled edges of the mating block while having space between the back side of the dovetail and the block is normal and maybe even desired so that it's easier to steam off.

It's not like the perfect fitting in making a jewelry box or something like that.
Author:  MikeyV [ Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
Jeeze...Have you guys no respect for tradition? laughing6-hehe I thought there would be more in favor of the dovetail.
At least Todd has his head screwed on straight. beehive

All kidding aside, I've build two guitars, both Dovetails. It's not that difficult, I used routing templates from Stew Mac...
First one, the cheek joint was not too hot, second one MUCH better. Watch out on the third... I think I was sanding the neck end of the sides into a bit of a round, when they really need to be perfectly flat. Of course, the joint still tightens, but that joint line can become a bit wonky.
Both of mine tightened up with hand pressure, to the point that I could grab the neck and shake the thing, it was not coming apart. Add the glue, and I'm very confident it it. And it's cool.

In the end, I'd choose the one I like best (for me, it was the dovetail, in the Martin tradition) and it's gone well. I'm interested in cutting them by hand, but I'll try that after a few more builds...

Whatever you choose, have fun!
Author:  Michael.N. [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck questions for my first build
Here is another form of joint:

Image

I suppose it's the same as the Violin/cello Neck joint. There's a very slight taper to the side walls. Part dovetail joint, part butt joint. It used to be used extensively on French Romantic Guitars.

Image
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