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| Tap Tune Question http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37051 |
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| Author: | Spyder [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tap Tune Question |
This weekend, I got all the braces glued to the tops of my first two. I have carved all but the X braces on both, and will start on that tomorrow. Both are pretty much identical in terms of design, thickness, etc. Since these are my first two guitars, they ARE my reference for future builds. As such, I have no clue as to what the tap tones should sound like. I did notice that when I tap the sound boards with my felt hammer in the area of the bridge patch, one has a higher "note" than the other. So my question is pretty general at this point, and is, which is better, the higher or lower note on the tone? I will very likely change the sound as I carve the X braces, but really have no idea which way I should go. For reference, these are both parlor guitars, made from the Scott Antes plan. Any advice much appreciated! PS: Yes, I have read the tap tuning book, and no, I don't have a strobe tuner. Thanks! |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
If the "Tap Tuning" book you have read is Siminoff, please disregard |
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| Author: | David Malicky [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
I think most luthiers and certainly any scientist would say the "Tap Tuning" book is not useful and/or based on anything real. The resonant frequency of a component part has little if anything to do with the tone of a completed guitar. For tuning a braced soundboard, there are some other techniques that are often used: "Free Plate Tuning" is one, Alan C is the expert on that, and Somogyi also has some techniques in his book. Or wait until the box is closed -- then there is another type of "tap tuning" ("Modal tuning") that is based on real science and is commonly used. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
If you want to know what the frequencies you are hearing actually are, download the free program Audacity and use its "plot spectrum" feature under the "Analyze" pull down menu. Keep records of the tap frequencies of the builds so you can adjust on future projects. A stiff top will produce a bright sounding quiet guitar and a too soft will be boomy, and muddy sounding. I would suggest Googling free plate tuning and read all you can find, John Mayes video on top tuning is also useful information. Fred |
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| Author: | woodrat [ Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
I started using the Siminoff methods and it lead me to utter confusion. Modal Tuning as per the Trevor Gore book is what I do now. It gives strategies to get in the ballpark and then trim to target from there both during and post construction....IMO hands down the best method.....(I did say IMO.....)  John |
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| Author: | peter.coombe [ Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
G'day John. I am not at all surprised that Siminoff confused the heck out of you. He wrote a book on making a bluegrass mandolin that is excellent except for the tap tuning chapter. I got half way through that chapter and could not read any further into the BS. I was expecting better since the rest of the book is good. Dave Cohen describes Siminoff's tap tuning methods as being based on Star Trek physics. Unfortunately that chapter in Siminoff's book has lead many aspiring mandolin makers astray. I never bought the tap tuning book (not surprisingly). As you know, Trevor and Gerard's book is based on real world physics and not science fiction. Peter |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
I don't use any scientific equipment but have used techniques I read from Dana Bourgeois' article. I can't remember where I saw it but I think it's on his website. I usually carve the x braces and upper transverse brace first. At that point I don't have any other braces glued on. I hold the top with my thumb on the x and my middle finger through the sound hole. I tap all over the top listening for the notes. At first the top has a dominant note and usually sounds and feels tight. Then I carve the braces and tap until the top starts losing it's dominant note and I hear others. The top also begins to feel looser. Then I glue on the other braces and carve them. As I carve I tap and listen and feel. Different guitars for different types of music and attack cause me to stop carving at different points. I have developed a working knowledge of the different tonewoods but it takes a while to gain this knowledge. Of course you have to know where to carve to get the result you are listening for. Alan and Trevor's techniques and equipment will likely get you in the ballpark faster but I have really enjoyed this journey I've been on. Since you have all of your braces on and you are now doing the x brace I would take a middle of the road approach to carving the x brace and see if I still needed to carve the tonebars more, taping as you go. This is a good time to take your top to an experienced builder and have her/him give you feedback. |
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| Author: | NWflyonly [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
Fred Tellier wrote: If you want to know what the frequencies you are hearing actually are, download the free program Audacity and use its "plot spectrum" feature under the "Analyze" pull down menu. Keep records of the tap frequencies of the builds so you can adjust on future projects. A stiff top will produce a bright sounding quiet guitar and a too soft will be boomy, and muddy sounding. I would suggest Googling free plate tuning and read all you can find, John Mayes video on top tuning is also useful information. Fred Fred, any chance you could post some screen shots of an ideal frequency top and a "muddy" one? I'm not the most adept at understanding frequency graphs and what not so any help would be greatly appreciated. I will download audacity and give it a whirl thanks for the advice. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tap Tune Question |
Check out the plots in this topic http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36759&hilit=tone Fred |
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