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Blotchy side dots
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37049		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mark Chinworth [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Blotchy side dots
I installed my black plastic side dots into the maple binding with medium CA. I usually count on the CA melting the dots a little bit to fill in any gaps and form a nice plastic/wood bond. During installation the black plastic got a little messy as expected, and I figured I could clean it up during the final sanding. Well, I have sanded as much as I can, and the blotchiness remains. Any advise to remove the blotches or mitigate in future builds?

PS. This is the same neck with the "May doofus of the month" cracked heel.
Author:  Rob Flindall [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Great timing with your post Mark! Although I don't have an answer for you, I'm just about to bind my fretboard with the identical binding. I was planning on using the plastic side marker dots as well and you've raised a great question. I'm waiting with baited breath on how to successfully deal with this dilemma before I do mine.

Btw - any tips on binding your fretboard with this binding? Titebond or CA? Have you bound your guitar with the same binding? Any tips for bending it?

Cheers!
Rob
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Looks more like a dull bit. I use duco cement. CA will wick into maple and other woods and leaves a distinct mark.
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Mark: I've done white dots in black wood binding using CA glue without any problems. Did you wait for the glue to set? I wait for glue to set then level. Were your holes cleanly cut? When you are binding your fret board you might think about binding after cutting fret slots and nipping the ends of the tangs on the frets. Something to consider for next time.
Tom
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
I have used CA on ebony but there are some woods CA will let a mark in. Your hole looks burred , maybe a chip out. Next time use a test piece you can see where CA in maple will wick in and let a mark.
Author:  Mark Chinworth [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Thanks for the replies. It looks like I will just have to live with the minor scars :roll:
Is it possible to use good ol' white elmers for these dots next time?

Jag: I used CA to glue the binding to the fretboard, then Titebond to glue the fretboard to the neck. I used the same maple binding from StewMac for the body and it bent very easily. Of the whopping three guitars I have made, this binding was the easiest to bend.

The bit did give me some minor chipping when I drilled, and that is definitely the source of the problem since the melted plastic wicked into the voids. Maybe my bit is junk, because I have only used it a few times. Is there such a thing as a brad-point 5/64" bit?

Tom: I waited overnight, so the glue was nice and hard when I leveled. Is there a way to nip the fret tanks with a normal flush trimmer (the same tooI used to trim the fret overhang after hammering)?
Author:  Heath Blair [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
If you're very careful, you can use a slightly larger BRAD POINT bit to drill those dots out. I've never used plastic side dot material, so I'm not sure what sizes it comes in. Hopefully in a size to fill a larger hole.

As far as the fret slots going though the binding, I use the LMI fret tang nippers to cut the end of the tang off and then clean up with a small file.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Mark Chinworth wrote:
Is there a way to nip the fret tanks with a normal flush trimmer (the same tooI used to trim the fret overhang after hammering)?


I know you addressed this question to Tom West, but I have nipped fret tangs with dykes before. It is not fun and it takes a while. You will still have to use a file to completely remove the tang that is left after nipping it off.
Another option if you don't want to shell out $50 to Stew Mac is to buy a Klein Nibbler and modify it with a little slot for the fret to sit in while you nip. That's what I did.
Here is the Klein Nibbler:
http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-76011B-Nibbler-Tool/dp/B0000CBJCT/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341809688&sr=8-1&keywords=klein+nibbler

It is currently $25 but I got mine for $12 on sale. Five minutes with a dremel and a cut off wheel and I had a nice fret tang nibbler for much less than the Stew Mac version.
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Mark: All I've ever used to do the tangs is a small file. A bit slow but works for me.
Tom
Author:  bluescreek [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
with plastic a sharp razor blade works well
Author:  John Coloccia [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
For a fix, you may try this:

Carefully dig out any black from the bruised white part of the binding. Make sure it's clean.

Grab a white lacquer/shellac stick or a mixture of acetone and white binding. I have a bottle with a brush cap of a paste I made with white binding and acetone that I use to fix minor booboos and gaps in the binding. Apply it...let it dry well for several days, and level. It should make a near invisible, if not invisible, repair. If it's not deep, the lacquer stick works faster and easier.
Author:  An Lao Shi [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Mark Chinworth wrote:
Is there such a thing as a brad-point 5/64" bit?


Yes, there is. Right here:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=42247&cat=1,180,42240

Look under:

"Individual Imperial
HSS Brad-Point Drills"

Heath Blair wrote:
If you're very careful, you can use a slightly larger BRAD POINT bit to drill those dots out. I've never used plastic side dot material, so I'm not sure what sizes it comes in. Hopefully in a size to fill a larger hole.


I've done this before, replacing 1/16 inch plastic side dots with 3/32 inch dots.

Use an awl to get a good hole in the center of the existing side dot. Drill it out with a 3/32 inch brad point bit. Insert a 3/32 inch side dot and apply glue. Usually, the fit is so tight glue may not be needed.

You can get 3/32 inch side dot material here:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bindings,_trim/Trim:_Side_dots/Plastic_Side_Dot_Material.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=139947

It may sound like a lot of work, but it really isn't.

By the way, I precut the side dots with a little extra length then drive them in using my fretting hammer. I use thin CA to glue them in. However, I'm using either ebony or rosewood. I then cut the excess off with a razor blade.
Author:  Goodin [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blotchy side dots
Mark Chinworth wrote:
Maybe my bit is junk, because I have only used it a few times. Is there such a thing as a brad-point 5/64" bit?


Yes.

I learned the hard way using cheap Chinese made drill bits. I recommend getting a high quality set of brad point drill bits, like these from Lee Vally/Veritas: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... ,180,42240. I bought the set and very glad I did. They are perfectly true and stay sharp. Well worth the money.

Edit: Oops, I see Perry beat me to it, should have read more posts.
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