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very small shop recommendations
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37023		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  kominak [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  very small shop recommendations
I need some ideas about equipping a small 8"x10" (2.6m x 3m) shop in our new house.
Is it reasonable to put there:

- bench (or 2?)
- band saw
- belt sander
- dust collector
- drill press
- sink

here's the floor plan:
Image

If it's not reasonable to put there all the stuff what to leave out? What to put under the window?
I can use another room for french polishing so this one will be for dusty work.
I guess having stuff on locking wheels is a good idea in such a small space? I plan on putting a lot of outlets at about chest level. Any other ideas?
I've built my 1st and 2nd in the living room and promised my wife never to do it again :)
Thanks a lot!
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
I think it's very reasonable. Some ideas...
......a bench under the window or
......2'x4' (or 4'x'4) bench in the center with wheeled machines (incl dust collector) in the corners
......I'd rethink the sink
Draw little cutouts of machine (and surrounding working areas) & move them around to find the best combo.
Author:  Goodin [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
I would agree with all of what Dave said. Put the main work bench under the window for natural light. Leave the sink out. Put all the big power tools on wheels so you tuck them out of the way when not in use. You may have enough room for a second bench on a wall or an island bench. The more bench space the better.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
An extra bench could be attached to the wall and hinged to drop down when more space is needed.

Alex
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Keeping the tools on wheels is a good idea and allows you to push them out of the way when not in use. A small tablesaw with an auxiliary top can be used as a bench when not used as a saw. I would go with a good quality shop vac that can store under a bench rather than a dust collector . A bench top drill press that can be stored under the bench might be handier than a floor model. I would either leave out the sink or go with a small RV or "bar" sink.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
On the other hand, the more bench space you have, the more crap you'll have just sitting on a bench. Anything horizontal collects debris and random objects...
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
One thing that helped me out was to use google sketchups to make a 3d model of the room and separate 3d representations of the things I wanted in there. You could do it with paper cutouts too but 3d was not hard to learn and allowed me to not only move stuff around but get an idea of the heights of items and how they will roll past one another. Once I figured out how I wanted it, I taped off the footprints of all the items in the empty room, and spent some time walking through from station to station and envisioning how I would flow from one thing to the next. I also checked to see if I would be able to manuver longer baords into and out of the storage areas.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Make use of ceiling space if you can. I have high ceilings in my small shop but it helps to be able to store stuff off the floor. I also have a porch outside with a roof where I keep my band, planer and drum sander under a tarp when not in use.

Image
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
One thing that works well in small spaces is high benches with lots of storage beneath. I like high benches for most work anyway but I have a little platform I can move around to stand on if I need a lower bench.

Image
Author:  ernie [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Martin , I am from kosice slovakia , but live in the usa.A suggestion there is a czech manufacturer of a multipurpose woodworking machinery I don/t rememeber their name Rojeck ??? don/t know if they are in bratislava or prague, you might want to check out one of these multipurpose machines to save space and money $$ for your small shop .Too many machines will eat up valubale floor space for building. Best wishes
Author:  Michael.N. [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
On the other hand you don't really need any power tools to make Guitars. A Router and a small bench top bandsaw is perfectly adequate, in fact my only power tool is the Bandsaw. I've still run out of space though!
Author:  Don Williams [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
I'm not a big proponent of trying to squeeze a lot into a tiny space. Anything can become a trip hazard, and that equates to serious danger around power tools, or any sharp tools for that matter.
In my opinion, that's just way too small a space for all that. I do agree however with the idea of a multi-purpose machine like a Shopsmith in this situation, if you must have power tools. There are obvious limitations to these tools, but your space has already provided that constraint for you. You're going to need the bench space, and that will eat up 24-30" of that space already, and if you put it by the door, you're encroaching into the egress of the doorway for starters. This is a really hard space to do much with, to be honest. It's usable, but with some severe limitations. Instead of a dust collector, using a small shop vac like a Fein or a Festool unit would be a good idea (kind of pricey though). Speaking of Festool, you can buy Systainers empty that you can drop on top of their vac units and they make excellent storage. Otherwise, something small parked in a corner or under the bench is a good option.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Somewhere, Rod True had a post about his shop. Small, but very efficient lay-out. Rod's use if space was quite ingenious, as I recall. Might have to log in over at luthiercom.org to see it, but I think if you check the archives there might be something here too.
Author:  kominak [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Thanks a lot! This has been very helpful so far.
Ernie, I've found the Czech manufacturer you mentioned(Rojek), they have a wide range of power tools that are very reasonably priced - thank you for the tip.
I realize it's a very limited space. I don't need to have a lot of power tools - belt sander is not that crucial, but I'd like to have some sort of saw and band saw seems more useful for luthiery tasks than a table saw.
What size band saw is practical? Electric guitar body being the thickest material being processed?
Also, is it possible to store the wood under the roof of the house (there's a lot of space, but no thermal insulation there - this means temperatures from -20 to +40 °C when the roof gets hot) . If I take the wood to the shop couple of weeks before it's being used?
Author:  Heath Blair [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
I have a three car garage, so I can't relate, but I found this workshop planner to be helpful in laying out a shop. Wish I could donate some of my space to you, your shop is tiny!

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Well, if it helps, here's mine. Not large (8'10" x 13'2")
You have to deal with what you have.... small shops just take longer to figure out. Fewer "dedicated" stations & find how to make everything serve more than one function.
Author:  ernie [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
martin, if you plan to cut 2in or 50mm stock for electric gtrs I would suggest at least a 12 in or 300mm bandsaw and 1/2 HP at 220-240 v?? as a minimum. The bandsaw IMHO is the most useful tool in a luthiers arsenal next to a router .It can do many tasks.If you prefer handtools. The germans ( Putsch)make a 5 pt rip bowsaw as well as a 9 pt joinery ripsaw.Of couse you will get a lot of free excercise :)PS I would not recommend a upper loft for wood storage with such wild changes in temperature. A dry ,draught free place between 15-24 deg C and a steady 40-50% humidity would be ideal . cheers. PS to create extra space you can put the bandsaw on a mobile base and use it outside your shop weather permitting.
Author:  coach [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Hey,

I have a very similar layout for my shop, almost identical. I put in some good lighting, recepticals on all the walls, and pegboard on one entire wall for hanging alot of my hand tools. One thing I haven't read about on other replies, and something you might want to think about is climate control. I put a window a/c unit in, have a space heater, and even a de-humidifier if it gets too humid. I live in Georgia so that can happen sometimes. But actually, I keep my wood in my climate controlled basement.

All I have in my shop is my bench under the window, and my go bar "box" I call it. It's really big and has alot of space under it for storing some of my jigs. The bench has alot of space under it for some powertools. I am fortunate though that I have my tablesaw, bandsaw, scrollsaw, sanders, etc., out in the garage, on my side. :) I don't want anymore in my shop, because I like a little elbow room, and want to have a controlled environment for glue ups, etc.

Sean
Author:  coach [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
coach wrote:
Hey,

I have a very similar layout for my shop, almost identical. I put in some good lighting, recepticals on all the walls, and pegboard on one entire wall for hanging alot of my hand tools. One thing I haven't read about on other replies, and something you might want to think about is climate control. I put a window a/c unit in, have a space heater, and even a de-humidifier if it gets too humid. I live in Georgia so that can happen sometimes. But actually, I keep my wood in my climate controlled basement.

All I have in my shop is my bench under the window, and my go bar "box" I call it. It's really big and has alot of space under it for storing some of my jigs. The bench has alot of space under it for some powertools. I am fortunate though that I have my tablesaw, bandsaw, scrollsaw, sanders, etc., out in the garage, on my side. :) I don't want anymore in my shop, because I like a little elbow room, and want to have a controlled environment for glue ups, etc.

Sean


You know, I misread your post. I have a much smaller space! I have a 5' x 10' space. My reply might make more sense now. :)
Author:  kominak [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Thanks a lot for all these good suggestions! It looks a lot clearer to me now [:Y:]
Author:  phil [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet - plan on keeping one of your doors closed and you'll have more wall space against which you can place something like a bandsaw. My shop is really tight too, and having a narrow door seems to 'increase' the floor space.

Also, expect that your shop layout will change over the course of time. This usually happens for me after I've finished a guitar and am doing a more thorough cleaning. I stand back and stare at the room for a few minutes, and get some new idea about how I could make better use of the space, or somehow squeeze in another tool.
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
A flip top cabinet with a bench top power tool mounted to each side can save space.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=66a0d97b0df5cdc0d3dad974dc098fa1
Image

A few other ideas:
Convert a handheld belt sander into a stationary sander by using a vise or stand:
Image

Convert your benchtop drillpress into an oscillating spindle sander with one of these:
http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta_Drill_Press_Owners_Manuals/Delta_17-960.pdf
I have used one of these on a bench top drill press and it served its purpose well before I got a big OSS. They are discontinued now but show up regularly on ebay.
Author:  kominak [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: very small shop recommendations
Thank you Mark, these are real space-savers [:Y:]
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