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| Neck Block Grain orientation http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36844 |
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| Author: | segovia [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Neck Block Grain orientation |
Is this neck block Ok to use, the grain runs top to bottom ? J |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
I say yes, the next guy is gonna say no. |
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| Author: | MikeyV [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
The next guy... here I am! It's traditional (martin style) to have the grain running in line with the sides. That way, you never glue to endgrain, which, as I'm lead believe, is not as strong a joint. In your configuration, the top and backwill glue to endgrain,and the sides will glue along wiht the grain. I would not use it, but I'd bet money that you wouldn't have a problem if you did. How's that for an answer? |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
I don't make blocks in that fashion. I think the grain should run in the same direction as the sides. Two reasons, one as Mickey mentioned re not gluing to end grain and the other is that the sides and block can both move due to changes in RH if the side grain and block grain run the same way. I also think the vertical grain is more prone to a crack due to a bit of trama. Guess that makes three reasons. Tom |
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| Author: | JasonM [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
. |
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| Author: | unkabob [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
The Hana Lima book calls for end-grain to be coated with glue about ten minutes before you intend to make the joint with a second coat when you make the joint. This chokes off the end-grain so it can't draw the glue away from the joint. It works for me. Bob 
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
David Newton wrote: I say yes, the next guy is gonna say no. Took the words right out of my mouth! |
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| Author: | JasonMoe [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
It looks like mahogany to me, I'd say yes, since mahog is pretty homogenus with grain and strengh. I like a flatsawn surface using bolt-on necks. It spread the washer nut head area out, and resists splitting. Gluing end grain with mahogany isn't that big of a deal. Its really dense and doesn't have the pores to soak up glue or anything. I think it would be find if its a stable piece of wood. I use a glued stack, because I dont have 4 inch chucks of mahogany to work with. Your block looks like the grain might be at a 45 degree. It might just be the cutting marks. I'd use it. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
Tom West wrote: I don't make blocks in that fashion. I think the grain should run in the same direction as the sides. Two reasons, one as Mickey mentioned re not gluing to end grain and the other is that the sides and block can both move due to changes in RH if the side grain and block grain run the same way. I also think the vertical grain is more prone to a crack due to a bit of trama. Guess that makes three reasons. Tom I'll add one more reason to this list though I suppose it depends on your style of building. You will most certainly need to plane a profile into the block to accept the angle the back makes as it mates to the block. Planing end grain is no fun. |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
Quote: You will most certainly need to plane a profile into the block to accept the angle the back makes as it mates to the block. Planing end grain is no fun. That right there is the best reason I've heard yet. In the past I used Mahogany blocks like the OP shows with no problems over many years, it is just too stable to cause problems, if well glued. I would saw the back taper in the block, but it always needed some trimming. I changed to a flat grain orientation several years ago, and it is good, but the OP's question needed a "real world" answer. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
here's my "real world" experience... I used to run my end blocks like that, but I started seeing hairline cracks in the ribs on some of them after a few years, and at least one had a crack that went through after many years. Luckily, I discontinued the practice and reverted to running the grain with the ribs, as is the "traditional way" before I had built too many. There is always a reason for "traditional methods"..... |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
grumpy wrote: I used to run my end blocks like that..... Mario - just to be sure I understand, when you say you used to run your end blocks like that, I think you mean with the grain running "vertically" so that the end grain contacts the top and back. Is that right? Thanks. |
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| Author: | segovia [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
Trying to source mahogany blocks at 100mm high with the grain running east to west is proving to be a bit of a mare. Only option is to plant top and bottom which I was trying to avoid J |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Block Grain orientation |
If building under controlled humidity conditions running the block cross grained to the ribs should be less of a problem. Some people feel it acts as more of a crack stopper when run this way. |
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