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| Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36837 |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Do any of you make your own kerfed linings? I'm considering making my own but didn't know if it's more of a PITA than any cost savings compared to buying them. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Quine [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Depends how much you use. I only build a couple instruments per year so its definitely better to buy it. If you can set up to make dozens of strips at a time, then maybe its worth it. Maybe solid linings would be a better option if you really want to make your own |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Kerfed linings have always seemed like one of those things that is just silly to buy, that said, I could never bring myself to set up to cut all those darned kerfs. I finally landed on doing laminated "solid" linings. It is more work than ordering linings but less tedious than making them. . . |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I make my own reversed kerfing. Before I had a table saw, I made them on my bandsaw. They are cheap to make and not hard at all. |
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| Author: | Alain Moisan [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Chris Ensor wrote: I make my own reversed kerfing. Before I had a table saw, I made them on my bandsaw. They are cheap to make and not hard at all. I agree. Once I cut and plane sticks to proper size, I slightly round one edge using my belt sander, and then run them through my kerfing table saw jig. Attachment: 10- Les contre-éclisses en cours de fabrication.jpg It's hard to say exactly how long it takes me since the different tasks are done mixed up with a series of other ones (all the resawing happens all at once for a given guitar, and all the planing as well...), but I assume it can be done within 30 minutes or so. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Filippo Morelli wrote: I have a table saw sled for making kerfed lining... What, no picture Filippo? Your jigs are some of the nicest. Thanks for all the replies so far. I was curious because I either forget to order it or I run out in the middle of a guitar which results in another shipping charge and another delay  . I have a decent assortment of tools & machines & didn't know if it was a no-brainer or a PITA.Thanks, Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I did a tutorial many moons ago for reverse kerf and still use this method. (In the old "archived tutorials" section .... lots of good stuff in there) viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14647" On thing I like is the ability to adjust the "floppiness" from one batch to another. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I make my own on a bandsaw, made up a very simple jig and it works fine. I cut quite a bit of my own wood and I always have plenty of off cuts for kerfing. |
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| Author: | Dave Olds [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
For those that make their own ..... can anyone suggest a supplier for a table saw blade with a kerf fine enough for kerfed linings. I guess I could use the Stu Mac fret-sawing blade, but wondered if there was anything cheaper available. Dave |
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| Author: | ernie [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Freud diablo 7.5in blade from homeless depot 1/16in kerf .I think they are $10. |
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| Author: | Dave Olds [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Thanks Ernie, I have looked online at the Freud blades and couldn't see anything with a 1/16 kerf - or anything even close to that. The finest one I could find was .083 which I believe is too wide. I don't suppose you have one of these blades and could find a part number or something. I am in NZ and would have to order from the web. Any info greatly appreciated. Dave |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I'm a big fan of the Ryan A-4 kerfed lining. Costs a bit more, but is so easy to use and looks way cool, IMO. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I have made them only once and that is for a current build requiring the use of local woods. Otherwise, I have always purchased. However, given how easy these were to whip out with the CNC, I will probably make more going forward. Ken |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Case by case for me. I use dentellones on the top, which I make by hand. It takes a while, but not too terribly long since a lot of the work is done by splitting rather than sawing. And you can make them wider than the kerf spacing on kerfed linings (like 3/8-1/2") and round the backs so they make good contact with the ribs. Not so easy to sand the backs concave for the waist area, so I just make some smaller flat backed ones for that. I use side braces that span all the way from plate to plate rather than stopping at the linings. So, my back linings are done in short strips between the side braces. I usually don't do wide purfling on the back, so the linings there can be pretty thin. In that case, I've been making them from the top offcuts lately, about .100" thick, and kerfed by jamming a chisel into it. Attachment: Linings.jpg If I need wider back linings, I buy them. Too much trouble to saw that many little slots. I do like the idea of solid linings, especially on the top where the added stiffness would help resist long term deformation. But I like building freestanding/mouldless which only really works with dentellones. It would also be a pain to notch them for the side braces, although it does look really nice in this picture from the R.Taylor site. Bonus points if you can use the side offcuts as perfectly matched linings. Attachment: bg-woods-details-02.jpg
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| Author: | charliewood [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I made my own up until now - if I see any money from making guitars I might buy them in the future .... however I have a jig thats like Alain's and its not difficult to make them either... just extra time.. Cheers Charlie |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I make my own because mine are just far more flexible and cheaper than anything I can buy. I just have a stick clamped to my miter gauge as a fence. I pass it once over the blade to make a kerf, stick an appropriately sized sliver of feeler gauge in there as an index pin, and then move it over for the kerf spacing and clamp back in place. I run a piece of wood that's about 8" wide, work my way down, and then slice them on my bandsaw....whatever wood I have that I can't use for necks and sides. I'm not picky. I think this was the very first homework task Cumpiano gave me at my first lesson. I thought he was a kooky old man, but I did it and I was shocked at how much easier they are to work with than the bought ones. I think it took me about an hour to make enough for about 5 guitars. I happened to get the blade from Thurston manufacturing... 0.035", maybe. I think I paid about $90 for it. Last I checked a typical guitar has $20 worth of bought linings in it. Even if I only get 10 guitars out of the blade, that's basically like working for $50 and hour using scrap wood and ending up with a superior product. Not bad. The trick, if there is one, is to put a block on top of the wood you're passing trough so that each kerf is exactly the same depth. Then you never have any concentration of stress and it bends like a noodle. Anyhow, no big deal either way but once I saw how shop made ones behaved, I'd never go back to the bought ones unless I was just building maybe one or two guitars...then making them myself would make no sense at all. |
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| Author: | ChuckB [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I make my own so I can make it from what ever kind of wood I want to. You can also control the kerf depth to make them more bendy or stiff. It takes very little time if you build a jig like Robbie O'Brien shows on his video on LMI"s site. Then round the edge over. But if you don't like reverse kerf lining, it may be better to buy it. Chuck |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I made my own for the top out of left over spruce bracewood. The bracing for the back is kerfed mahogany from LMI. It was slightly a pain to make all the little blocks for the top but as far as I know this is the best way for this type of construction... Attachment: IMG_4013 (Large).JPG
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
When I make reverse kerfed linings I stack 4 diablo blades on the table saw arbor with spacers between them. I make the pieces with a roundover with a filet. I'll cut 10 or more strips at a pass (40+ kerfs) so it goes pretty quick. After I have cut all the kerfs I run the pieces through the thickness sander to thin out the filet and make the strips more flexible. I have also made regular triangular cross section linings by cutting kerfs in square pieces and sending them through the sander on a jig that holds them at the proper angle. The only linings I make with the band saw are dentellones. |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Linings are fairly cheap to buy, but I prefer to make my own. Here's a pic of my kerfing jig. There are three blades on the arbour, separated by .290" spacers. I used aluminum, but good plywood would do. This unit makes quick work of kerfing the linings, once the stock has been made up. The little paddle is used to push down firmly on the linings as the cuts are made. Keeps the depth of cut consistent. I use a stop in the slide track to prevent cutting through the back of the jig & exposing my fingers to those whirling blades. 
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| Author: | DannyV [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Daniel Minard wrote: Linings are fairly cheap to buy, but I prefer to make my own. Here's a pic of my kerfing jig. There are three blades on the arbour, separated by .290" spacers. I used aluminum, but good plywood would do. This unit makes quick work of kerfing the linings, once the stock has been made up. The little paddle is used to push down firmly on the linings as the cuts are made. Keeps the depth of cut consistent. I use a stop in the slide track to prevent cutting through the back of the jig & exposing my fingers to those whirling blades. x2 on that setup thanks to my neighbour Daniel. It's pretty fast. I did try ply or MDF spacers but didn't have much luck with them. My Lee Valley blade stiffeners work well for spacers. Thanks Mr. Minard! |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Hey!! Theres the two Danny's back to back - hows it going guys? Cheers Charliewood |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
Hey! backatcha Charlie! |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kerfed Lining - Buy or Make |
I started off making my own, then I started buying and now I just use solid linings. I used a radial arm saw and could bang them out pretty quick but for the price of them and the time saved I felt that buying was a reasonable value. |
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