| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36772 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | stick [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
I am slowly working on #1 here and there when I have a chance some days, and reading this forum most days. This is my return to woodworking after many years. I'm a bit rusty and getting frustrated when I make small surface errors as I am not sure what to expect to be able to fix when it is time to finish the guitar. Following are a couple photos. One of a dig in what will be the guitar's back, and one photo of small gaps between the square pieces of wood I used to make the rosette. Will these gaps and scrapes be able to be filled later on, or should I consider remaking the parts before bracing and gluing up the body? Thanks! (The lighting is not to great in the photos. The wood is Douglas Fir) Attachment: DSCN4015.jpg Attachment: DSCN4013.jpg
|
|
| Author: | Quine [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
I think the back ding can be sanded out. The gaps in the rosette would be tricky to fill because its light colored wood. You could try to fill with the darker color but the edges might look irregular. You could try to route out the rosette and try the rosette again. Or just fill the gaps with CA and call it handmade character |
|
| Author: | Alain Moisan [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
I guess it depends on how much imperfections are you willing to accept on your first guitar. The gaps can be filled in numerous fashions, but in any case they will show. The weird crack on the back should show as well. It looks sort of 'dirty', so you may be able to sand it off a bit. If it were me, and the top was not braced yet, I would leave the back crack (but do my best to hide it), but redo the rosette. |
|
| Author: | Lincoln Goertzen [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
Welcome to the Forum, and to building, Eric. I would second Alain's advice. If the rosette bothers you, redo it. It will never be easier than now. |
|
| Author: | Hupaand [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
The rosette gaps look like they are from the darker wood. |
|
| Author: | John Sonksen [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
You can fill the gaps in the rosette by using superglue mixed with sanding dust from the wood (looks like walnut) and it should hide fairly well. There's another product that you can get from a paint store that's basically a medium for making your own hard putty, though I don't know how small of a volume you can purchase. The benefit of using your own hard putty from the actual wood you used is that over time as the wood ages and changes color, the putty should change at the same time. I've been a cabinet maker for 16 years and regular, pre-mixed, store bought putty's will just jump right out at you after the sun's been at the wood for awhile. That said, I agree with those above that say it's all about whether you can live with it or not. If you think you can leave it and look at it as an artifact of your first build, then maybe it's not a big deal. If every time you look at it you're going to think about how you should have fixed it then you probably should. |
|
| Author: | stick [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
Thank you everyone for the ideas and words of advice. That gives me a few ideas to consider. I'm enjoying the process and learning a lot. I know there are many more little scratches and chip-outs to come as I work on the rest of the guitar. Being #1, maybe I'll accept some of this as the learning curve and make some mental notes for the guitars that follow. For the rosette I should have made little trapezoids instead of 1/8 inch square pieces of walnut and fir. That would have minimized the gaps. Thanks again! |
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
Make them detailed, cataloged, and diagramed notes instead of mental notes. By the time you get around to your next rosette, you may well have forgotten any mental ones... |
|
| Author: | Mark Mc [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
Like John said, you could try filling the gaps with dust from your dark wood mixed with CA glue. However, you need to be careful of the tendency for thin sperglue to wick into the endgrain and discolour a light soundboard. I would probably rout out the rosette and have another go. For dings and divots you can try the technique of steaming them out. It doesn't really fix a defect with missing wood, but it is great if the defect is due to compression of the wood fibres. Place a moist cloth over the ding and apply steady heat for 5 seconds from a heat source like a clothes iron or a soldering iron. It is amazing how some defects just disappear before your eyes. Mark |
|
| Author: | JSDenvir [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
As a relatively new builder myself, I'd say just go for it. At this stage, I think building is more important than fiddling with cosmetics. That's assuming you're going to build more than one. If you're just building this one, fiddle away to your heart's content 
|
|
| Author: | Corky Long [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
JSDenvir wrote: As a relatively new builder myself, I'd say just go for it. At this stage, I think building is more important than fiddling with cosmetics. That's assuming you're going to build more than one. If you're just building this one, fiddle away to your heart's content +1. For me, just getting my first guitar complete was the mission. If I'd redone every step that wasn't perfect, I'd still be working on #1! On the back dent, it depends how much wood you've got left. I wouldn't sand it thinner than .075". If you've got a dent still, well then, it's character. On the rosette, I wouldn't redo it. Too easy to damage the top while rerouting, then youve got another repair to deal with, and the whole thing starts to unravel. Take notes on how you made the first rosette, what you did right and wrong, and learn for the next one. For filling that rosette, I'd do the following: 1) sand with 220 so that all is clean. 2) spit coat with dewaxed shellac - as protection. 3) join the top and back to the sides. 4) fill the rosette with thin CA. (As long as the top is sealed with a spit coat of shellac, the CA won't stain the Doug Fir. Without the shellac, you risk having the CA wick into the grain of the Doug Fir and discolor it. 5) Have fun. |
|
| Author: | John Sonksen [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
Alternatively you can actually fill the gaps in the rosette with lacquer and you should avoid the discoloration. It will take awhile depending on the size of the gap. After you do a seal coat you could use a toothpick or an artist brush to drip lacquer into the gaps until it fills completely. Level it off with some 320 grit and then move on to your finishing plan. |
|
| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
I make "filler" using wood dust and lacquer. This seems to give me the best color match and fewest problems. I am also in the camp of touch it up and move on. Those flaws look fairly minor, and as you mentioned there will probably be others in the future. |
|
| Author: | nickton [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
It looks to me like the back is flat sawn, which is not worth getting too picky with, and the rosette, being nice and simple, could be patched in or filled quite easily. Also that back scratch almost exactly matches the pronounced grain lines, so you could make it almost indistinguishable I bet. |
|
| Author: | Corky Long [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
[quote="stick"]I know there are many more little scratches and chip-outs to come as I work on the rest of the guitar. Being #1, maybe I'll accept some of this as the learning curve and make some mental notes for the guitars that follow. " I couldn't agree more. #1 (and maybe, 2,3,4....) are almost certain to have plenty of opportunities for climbing up the learning curve. My own definition of success is to not make the same stupid error twice...  ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
|
|
| Author: | bluescreek [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
Put me down to dust and finish . CA on spruce often will turn yellow over time. Finish and dust will be more user friendly. |
|
| Author: | cphanna [ Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #1 scratches, chip-out, gaps - will these be repairable |
It looks to me as though the rosette gaps are a result of the light tiles being more square than the dark tiles, so make a note for the future about shaving all your tile "logs" to an angle that provides a nice, snug fit. Now, as for filling these little gaps, I believe you can use any of the methods described above--including just filling with clear finish. Any of these methods will leave some tell-tale evidence upon VERY close inspection, but they'll look better than the open gaps look to you right now. I'd choose a method and fill first. Sand level. Wet the rosette with naphtha and see whether you can live with the results. You'd still have the option of routing it out at that point, but I think you'll be fine. Once this area is nice and level and covered by a nice finish, most people will see the beautiful finish and not look through it too deeply. You will be surprised and pleased by the reaction of all your friends to this accomplishment. There is a tremendous "gee-whiz" factor among people who see your handiwork for the first time. Most of them can't imagine how anyone could do such a thing. They'll mostly be full of praise for your work, and rightly so. You will be your own toughest critic. And, as Filippo says, you'll dive in a start on another pretty soon! Press on, my friend, and good luck! Patrick |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|