You are a few months too early with this. The glue thread season normally kicks off in September.
You might get more replies if you add to an old thread from last season. Nobody likes a mid-season replacement thread.
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| Annual LMII White Glue thread http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36570 |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Wed May 23, 2012 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I used LMII's white glue a bit some years ago, and really liked it, but I was scared off because I kept reading about inexplicable glue failures. Has anyone ever gotten to the bottom of what was going on with that? I would like to start using it again but that does have me slightly concerned. Just wondering what the current wisdom on this is now. |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Wed May 23, 2012 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
You are a few months too early with this. The glue thread season normally kicks off in September. You might get more replies if you add to an old thread from last season. Nobody likes a mid-season replacement thread.
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed May 23, 2012 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
The only problem I've ever had was running out of it and not being able to just go out and get some more. Crossing the border adds so much to shipping.... |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Wed May 23, 2012 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
Tony_in_NYC wrote: You are a few months too early with this. The glue thread season normally kicks off in September. You might get more replies if you add to an old thread from last season. Nobody likes a mid-season replacement thread. It's glue thread season somewhere. The only issue I've had with LMI white is having it cure opaque white once, but I think the glue was too cold when I used it. Otherwise I've been very happy with it. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Wed May 23, 2012 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
CharlieT wrote: It's glue thread season somewhere. South of the equator. Pat |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed May 23, 2012 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I've never had a problem with it. Never had a problem with Tightbond either. |
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| Author: | peter.coombe [ Wed May 23, 2012 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
Never had a problem with it. Just make sure the workshop is heated in winter. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Wed May 23, 2012 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
So its another LMI white thread.......so here is a question, anyone know what's different about LMI's white glue as compared to Elmers, the PVA stuff sold by wood working suppliers or the no name stuff at the craft store? |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Wed May 23, 2012 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
All I know is I loved working with it, it spread very nicely, and it dries rock hard. I've also read that it has very good heat resistance. Then I read about a handful of random failures and never reordered it. I'm not sure it really matters, to be honest, but I do want to understand it. I just hate doing something, or not doing it, because of myth and lore. I'd like there to be some rational thought process behind it, even if everything turns out to be equal for all practical purposes and I choose because LMII smells better. Elmers white glue is pretty soft, though I have no reason to believe you can't build an instrument with it. It's nothing like LMI's. I've never tried Titebond's. It would all be much easier to compare, and this is turning into a pet peeve of mine, if companies like LMI and Stewmac that frequently repackage products would just say what the darn product is, or at least give us the full specs on the products. StewMac absolutely refuses to give me the tang width on their various fret wires. It's absurd. |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Wed May 23, 2012 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
In fact, I'll be very frank and tell you that I don't know which ones are PVAs and which ones are aliphatic resins. I find only vague and conflicting information online. I don't know what the difference in properties is. LMI's is a PVA, I suppose. I think TBI is a apiphatic resin. But then TB2 is a PVA again. It almost seems like saying "PVA" is like saying "Fuel". Diesel? Methanol? Gasoline? Kerosene? |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Wed May 23, 2012 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
Aliphatic resin is just a marketing term for a particular formulation of PVA. They are all PVA. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed May 23, 2012 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
Correct me if I am wrong but I have heard that LMI White is very similar to the Gorilla White wood glue. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Wed May 23, 2012 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
John, I've never used LMI white, but............ If you used it, and you liked it, and you never had any failures don't quit using it just bacause of something you read on the internet. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Wed May 23, 2012 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
jfmckenna wrote: Correct me if I am wrong but I have heard that LMI White is very similar to the Gorilla White wood glue. Nope, not at all the same. Gorilla is very flexible and rubbery; it is exterior rated. LMI White is brittle and not exterior grade. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed May 23, 2012 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I thought Aliphatic Resin is just a type of PVA. I like titebond I though, use it for joints requiring longer open time like closing the box, but I want to give fish glue a try... especially its hard to clean up titebond (hide glue is much easier), and I heard from Robbie O Brien's video that fish glue has a 15 minute open time, perfect for bindings. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed May 23, 2012 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I believe LMII has it made for them by a glue making giant in Eastern Canada. If you ask them, they will send you an MSDS, though it has been made 'public friendly' so that you can't scoop the manufacturer and cut them out of the supply line, which is fair enough. I researched it for a while when we brought some in to work (MSDS required by WCB) and that was as far as I got. I do feel fairly comfortable saying that it is not a rebranded product, on a side by side test with other white glues it is both harder and clearer, and less prone to filling belts with residue when sanding. But why not just ask them? |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Thu May 24, 2012 1:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I like LMI white and don't really care much who makes it for LMI. It's cheap enough that there's not much to be gained cutting out the middleman anyway. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Thu May 24, 2012 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I've used it for 10 years and have had no problems. Right now I'm using it to close the box, end blocks, kerfed lining, and fretboards. I did use it for bridges before switching to hide. I had one bridge lift but I don't think it was the fault of the glue. I really like the stuff. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu May 24, 2012 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I agree about the price. Except when you need to ship it into Canada, as the shipping and duties tend to be more than the price of the glue...so getting a few new bottles of glue usually ends up costing a few hundred bucks. 'Cause once you're on the site, you may as well get a and a with a set of.... 
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Thu May 24, 2012 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
meddlingfool wrote: 'Cause once you're on the site, you may as well get a and a with a set of.... So true! ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
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| Author: | SteveVA [ Thu May 24, 2012 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
I did try it a few years ago. The first bottle was fine with no problems at all. In fact, I liked the way it set up. The second bottle I got was a different story; I had two failures. The first was a bridge and the second was a soundboard seam. Fortunately both were easy to fix. Since there were no obvious variables like temperature, humidity, surface prep,etc and the guitars in question didn't show any signs of abuse I decided to retire the LMI glue. I still think it's a good product and judging by the majority of posts most others do as well. I may have been the unfortunate recipient of a one-in-a-million bottle! |
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| Author: | york [ Wed May 30, 2012 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
Not sure what LMI is but I like it. It seems to have less open time than Titebond but dries hard an clear which I like. White Elmer's creeps and I would not use it on an instrument. Same for any no-name craft glue. My understanding is that Gorilla is similar to Titebond II. I have started using Gorilla for some "non-critical" gluing and like it for that. Would not use it for something that I might want to take apart, though I have heated it and gotten it to release, but after only a few days. The glues I trust are titebond, LMI, and and am really liking fish glue these days. |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
Well, my experiment is done. I've been playing with this glue for a while, and it has one property that no other glue I've ever used has: it breaks cleanly along the glue line. Not every time but I've seen it enough times now that I've just stopped using it. I just did another one this morning. I took a cutoff from a top that was glued a couple of weeks ago, and absolutely clean break. ZERO wood failure. I noticed it last night trimming braces too. Tap it with a chisel and they pop right off cleanly. Is this happening to others? Is that just normal behavior for this glue? Anyhow, I just wanted to give an update on what I found. It's a shame because I like everything else about it! |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
John - thanks for sharing your test results. Very interesting! Was the glue you used fresh? |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Annual LMII White Glue thread |
CharlieT wrote: John - thanks for sharing your test results. Very interesting! Was the glue you used fresh? I ordered it May 23...the day I started this thread, actually. What's really surprising is these are glue line failures on SPRUCE, and some of them are absolutely clean without even a hint of wood failure. The joints are tight. The one from this morning on the top cutoff really shocked me. I thought for sure that it broke to the left or right of the joint because it was so clean, but nope....just running my fingernail down the break confirmed that it was rock hard (i.e. it was the glue line) and a clean failure. I think I'm going to keep building with this top...I don't think it's going to fall apart. I'm just building it for myself, anyway, and as a loaner/demonstrator so if a brace pops off or something falls apart one day, I don't really care. I'll just pop off the neck and worry about it then. |
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