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| Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36547 |
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| Author: | John Killin [ Sun May 20, 2012 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
I am about to finish my guitar with Em6000. This is my first time using this product. My original plan was to try and spray it. I did some testing today and am not quite sure spraying is going to be the best method of application for me at this time. I just dont know enough about spraying to evaluate my progresss or make adjustments. Knowing that I would have the learning curve with the spraying, one of the benefits I saw in the EM6000 was that it could be brushed. I am wondering if any of the EM6000 brushers out there can tell me a little bit about their process and schedule for brushing this. Thanks, John |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Sun May 20, 2012 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
John, I've brushed it on successfully. I would suggest you think in terms of 'flowing' it on, in order to get a good build-up of material. Get a good synthetic brush (I can't remember the brands, but you'll need to go to an arts supply store to get a good synthetic brush, probably in the $30-50 range -- yes, yikes!), and clean it thoroughly after every use. Clean off fuzzy-wuzzies and lint after every coat with a quick pass of micro-mesh, then cheese cloth. Level sand with 600-800 grit every 6-8 coats (let dry 2-3 days beforehand). Shoot for at least 20 coats, more if you can do so. It DOES shrink down significantly! Wait at least 100 hrs before final sanding and buffing, 2-3 weeks if you can wait that long. It's a lot of work, but gives good results. I'm probably forgetting some things, but that's the basic practices that I use. |
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| Author: | SKBarbour [ Sun May 20, 2012 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
I've brushed on KTM 9 on my guitars but have not used em6000 because I haven't heard much about brushing it on. 20 coats sounds like alot for a brushed on finish, but like I said I've never used em6000. I've done about 12 coats of ktm 9. 3 coats a day, level sanding lightly after every 3rd coat the following day. As far as brushes, I have used foam brushes but just bought a good synthetic brush designed specifically for waterbourne lacquers. I think the site I bought it from was woodworkingtools.com. Haven't used it yet but I'm hoping it cuts down on air bubbles a bit. Alot of folks have good results with brushed on finishes, it's all about technique. At least that's what they say. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sun May 20, 2012 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
On the single guitar on which I've used EM6000 thus far, I applied the finish using a cheap foam roller, then smoothed out the bubbles using a cheap foam brush. It does seem bubbles are inevitable with EM6000 unless you're spraying, but then I haven't tried applying it with a traditional brush of any kind, so that may work better. |
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| Author: | phil [ Sun May 20, 2012 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
I recently finished a guitar with em6000 and a brush and will do it again. I did almost 20 coats, but probably sanded off at least half of it in the process - flattening with 320 grit every fourth coat. So I got a really flat finish, but could have probably used a little more on the surface by the time I got to buffing. Though the stuff says you don't need much time in between coats, and that you can buff out after 100 hours, I'll try to be way more patient next time around. The longer you wait, the better the results, I'm sure. I used a bit of retarder, and had virtually no bubbles using this brush. http://www.woodessence.com/Gramercy-Too ... 10C19.aspx Oh, and the final few coats went on very thin, then were sanded with 600, 800, 1000, and then 2 different menzerna pastes on a random orbit sander with a surbufs. The surface definitely isn't as hard as laquer, but I've got a really small shop in the basement, and I and my family are safe! |
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| Author: | SKBarbour [ Mon May 21, 2012 5:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
Thats the brush I was talking about that I just recieved. I look forward to trying it out. Sounds like I will have to try em6000 next go 'round. |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Mon May 21, 2012 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
The brushes that i used were made by Grumbacher (Bristlette 4720 Flat) and Winsor & Newton. From Michael's (handcraft/art supply store). |
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| Author: | mikemcnerney [ Tue May 22, 2012 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
Everytime I've don samples I get bubbles. Has anyone used the SA5 retarder from target, how much. MM |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Tue May 22, 2012 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
mikemcnerney wrote: Everytime I've don samples I get bubbles. Has anyone used the SA5 retarder from target, how much. MM I haven't tried the retarder because I read somewhere that it results in a softer finish. Anyone else heard that? |
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| Author: | James W B [ Tue May 22, 2012 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
I`ve brushed a lot of cabinetery with it ,but I would`nt brush a guitar.The reason is that it`s impossible for me to get thin enough coats to prevent the bluing that you hear people talk about with acrylic finishes.I`ve never had this problem spraying thin coats.Even on very dark woods. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed May 23, 2012 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
The best buff out I ever had with EM6000 occured on a guitar that I applied 20 coats. Let it sit for a week or so. Then, I finish sanded (mineral spirits, micro mesh) up to 6000 or so. Then, I forgot about it as I got busy with another project. Several weeks went by. Months actually. Finally buffed it and was blown away. I think there is something to letting the finish age a bit. Mike |
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| Author: | John Killin [ Wed May 23, 2012 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brushing EM6000 Schedule and Process |
Well after hearing about the bubbles, I bailed on the brush idea and went ahead and gave the spray gun another try. The brush idea was really a fallback in case I couldn’t get over my fears of the unknown with the spray gun. I mostly have it dialed in and think I'm doing OK with it. The front and back are great. My side technique needs some work. The neck is right on. I’m going to like this finish I think. Anyway I don’t want to steer this topic off the subject of brushing. Thanks for the brushing tips. In the past when I brushed finish on, I used a Grumbacher Artist brush. It worked well but I never felt that I got a thick enough coat on there and was constantly sanding through. I definitely didn’t want to repeat that. After seeing the flow out on this product I can see where brushing is a viable option. I like the idea of using that bigger brush. I bet it really helps with the volume of product that you can put on. Well I’m going to keep plodding along with the spraying. Keep the brushing tips coming. John |
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