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| Author: | stringbender [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | tuners |
I installed Grover 18:1 open geared tuners on my archtop build. After 2 years of use I now have an issue with the high E clicking and slipping when tuning down under tension. I can't visually determine the problem, all the teeth seem intact. The posts have always been loose and wobbly when unstrung with no tension.I had a similar problem with the closed back Grovers on my Avalon. After a few years the low E could no longer hold the tension up to pitch. Has anyone had success repairing slipping tuners?I'd like to avoid buying a whole set to replace one tuner.Are Waverlys worth the extra pricing. do they provide a warranty? I'd appreciate some feedback on brand quality and failed tuners. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
You sure it's not the nut slot? |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
I've never had a problem with any tuners. Gotoh 510, cheap Gotoh, Schaller M6, etc. I did hear from a friend with a problem with the Waverlys, so, luck of the draw? |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Fri May 18, 2012 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
I will not use the grover open backs any more the last several sets I got had one or two bad tuners in each set. I have switched to the Gotoh open back with the brass gears and the 2 sets I have used have been excellent quality. Fred |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
Hi Mark, I would also recommend the Gotoh open back tuners. I use them all the time and have never had any issues. I have used Waverlys and they are nice tuners, but I've had problems with about 3 sets out of the 6-8 sets I've used over the years. I don't believe they offer any warranty. I also prefer the feel of Gotoh's. Waverlys look great and I like the button options, but for function I prefer Gotoh. If I were you I would replace the whole set of Grovers with Gotohs. Unless you find one Grover tuner then you will have to replace them all anyway to get a matched set. Josh |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
I should have also said (like Christ mentioned) that I would also check the nut slot first to make sure that is not where your problem is. The way you describe the issue does sound like it could be a tight nut slot. You may need to widen it slightly, or polish it with some very fine sandpaper and add some graphite or other lubricant. If none of that helps then check the tuner. Often when a tuner becomes defective you can feel it when tuning. I like Fred am not a fan of Grovers, and have replaced a number of sets over the years that came in on repair jobs. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Sat May 19, 2012 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
Quote: Are Waverlys worth the extra pricing. do they provide a warranty? Yes, and so does Grover. The first version of the 18:1 Grovers had some problems, and they were redesigned. In my experience, they will replace them for free. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat May 19, 2012 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
Holy! We get some big names on this forum! |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Sat May 19, 2012 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
John Arnold wrote: Quote: Are Waverlys worth the extra pricing. do they provide a warranty? Yes, and so does Grover. The first version of the 18:1 Grovers had some problems, and they were redesigned. In my experience, they will replace them for free. I should add that the 2 sets I found to be defective before I installed them were replaced for free by Stew Mac. Their customer service is top notch. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat May 19, 2012 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
I have been using both Waverley and Grover's. The new design on the Grover's is actually pretty good. I have not have a failure. Also there are adjustments that can be done on both of these tuners . You can tighten posts and adjust the tension. Waverley has a stamped bass as did Grover , grove now uses a machined base. All new tooling for them makes the Grover's look nice. Hearing a pop and detune is often a sign of a binding nut. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Sat May 19, 2012 4:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
John what I have found on the tuners is there is between 1/8 to 1/4 turn of slop in the button with the shaft held from rotating. This is caused by the hole the button shaft and worm gear go through is over sized allowing the worm to move away from the gear. All the ones I have are not stamped out bases. How do you adjust the slop out of the gears, there is no adjustment for that. I have been told that Grover does not consider sloppy fits a defect. The 1st several sets I had back 6 or 7 years ago are still fine its the ones from the last 3 years that are either so tight they are hard to turn of sloppy fits, either is unacceptable to me or the people who play my guitars. The 1st set I have has the gold plating almost worn off the buttons and they are still good, I use 5 different tunings so they are turned a lot. Josh, are the Gotoh open backs a drop in fit to replace the Grovers? |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Sat May 19, 2012 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
Quote: grover now uses a machined base. Grovers are die cast (pot metal). Waverlys are heavy gauge steel. Even though Grovers are made in Asia, you still get what you pay for. |
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| Author: | stringbender [ Mon May 21, 2012 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
thanks everyone.It wasn't the nut slot, which was my first thought too. After an enquiry to stew-mac they responded very quickly and it sounds like a new set is on the way.It still seems a waste to trade a whole set to get one. And instead of just replacing one I will have to replace them all to return them all which is more work,down time and inconvenience than it warrants. The embarrasing irony is that when I just put in a new set of strings I saturated the gears and bushings with 3&1 and worked it back and forth before stringing back up and it may have solved the problem.Possibly there was some grit in there that the oil flushed out or maybe it's just a temporary fix. I still don't like the loose and sloppy feel when they are unstrung and if I continue to have problems I will go to the Gotohs( which I had thought were supposed to be the inferior brand).Stringbender |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Tue May 22, 2012 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
stringbender wrote: And instead of just replacing one I will have to replace them all to return them all which is more work,down time and inconvenience than it warrants. You could just replace the one, put the old one back in the package and send it back like that, although replacing tuners really isn't a lot of work. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Tue May 22, 2012 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: tuners |
Quote: The Grover 14:1 oval button Sta-Tites are stamped steel, as are nearly all open gear tuners from the cheapest bargain brands up to the Waverlys - it's just less expensive to stamp than to commit to the process of making dies, etc. The older Grovers and the Waverlys use a heavier gauge steel than the 14:! Grovers or most other bargain brands. Stew Mac searched out a special steel to do the Waverly baseplates to make sure to avoid the problems with cracking in the bends that sometimes happens with the older Grovers. Given a choice between pot metal and steel, I'll take the steel. Enclosed tuners have always been die cast, but they typically have much larger bearing surfaces than open tuners. |
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